120 new Brady District Lofts + retail

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by MDepr2007

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Michael,

Not playing devil's advocate here, just relaying one aspect of ball park costs which will be a higher cost than Springdale if we contract now to build it.  

According to one of our vendors, steel prices have gone up by 87% since Jan. 1 this year.  I believe it's about double what it was a year ago.  There is a possibility of prices falling this fall, but that has been rumored since spring that steel prices would retreat and they have not as of yet.

Our finished product costs have gone up in the neighborhood of 15 to 33% this year, depending on the vendor.  Most of what we sell are labor-intensive finished goods, that's why the price of the product itself has not nearly doubled with the price of steel.  My shipping costs have about doubled in a year also on any truck freight we ship around the country.

So, there's one other reason to consider why our ballpark may wind up costing more, along with higher diesel costs for construction equipment than what they would have been paying on the project in Springdale.  Unfortunately, with out of control commodity markets, it makes it a lot harder to compare costs from one recent finished project to one which would be finished in a couple of years.  At least without the help of a scientific calculator. []

IOW- it's not out of the question that we might spend 20 to 30% more to construct an identical ballpark if land aquisition costs and every other variable were identical to that of the Springdale park, based on today's prices for materials and fuel.

Every year the price of steel has risen lately. For some reason alot of the parks built are still close to the same and not 20% to 30% more than the year before parks.

Not near as steep as this year, nor coupled with out-of-control fuel prices.  

[ARGUS]

From the outside I see this:
A developer is getting SCREWED!  This should NOT be able to happen. It seems to me that this developer was in place first with his plans and then TDA comes in and decides to push him aside.
IMO the ballpark downtown is stuuuupid.
Who goes to Tulsa Drillers games anyway? Come on who?
Leave the damn thing where it is. OR look far far ahead and see it on the banks of the river in Jenks surrounded by an amusement park.
Downtown is not really the place.
There is no parking for all those people who DONT go to the games anyway.
Let The Brady?BlueDome districts continue to "self develop"!!!! That way they will surrvive w/out some head up _ss "council" "authority" screwing it up.
Any council or authority involvement is kiss of death or it seems so in recent past.
Private capitalism wins everytime. Here's what authorities and councils need to concentrate on:
Streets and schools.
But what do I know?
I do not know the developer and am not familar with his recent past projects but he got Shanghai'd on this. I hope some clarity strikes a firebrand hero w/ some vision on some of these "councils/authorities".
Their collective vision is apparent just consider this past story: concern mounts over stains on BOk Center...duh! build a building that has sloped exterior walls...of course it will have stains running down the walls...who didnt know this?...Iam using that to attempt to make a broader point...it seems experience is bending to something besides common actual knowledge. ( I think it's a cool looking building; but knew/pretty sure it would have blemishes on the outside).
It's like the powers that be are trying to throw a party with out proper planning...the results are horrific.
let the flaming begin.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

From the outside I see this:
A developer is getting SCREWED!  This should NOT be able to happen. It seems to me that this developer was in place first with his plans and then TDA comes in and decides to push him aside.
IMO the ballpark downtown is stuuuupid.
Who goes to Tulsa Drillers games anyway? Come on who?
Leave the damn thing where it is. OR look far far ahead and see it on the banks of the river in Jenks surrounded by an amusement park.
Downtown is not really the place.
There is no parking for all those people who DONT go to the games anyway.
Let The Brady?BlueDome districts continue to "self develop"!!!! That way they will surrvive w/out some head up _ss "council" "authority" screwing it up.
Any council or authority involvement is kiss of death or it seems so in recent past.
Private capitalism wins everytime. Here's what authorities and councils need to concentrate on:
Streets and schools.
But what do I know?
I do not know the developer and am not familar with his recent past projects but he got Shanghai'd on this. I hope some clarity strikes a firebrand hero w/ some vision on some of these "councils/authorities".
Their collective vision is apparent just consider this past story: concern mounts over stains on BOk Center...duh! build a building that has sloped exterior walls...of course it will have stains running down the walls...who didnt know this?...Iam using that to attempt to make a broader point...it seems experience is bending to something besides common actual knowledge. ( I think it's a cool looking building; but knew/pretty sure it would have blemishes on the outside).
It's like the powers that be are trying to throw a party with out proper planning...the results are horrific.
let the flaming begin.

You asked for it...

I'm guessing your residential zip code is 74037...or maybe even 74137

[carltonplace]

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

let the flaming begin.

You asked for it...

I'm guessing your residential zip code is 74037...or maybe even 74137

Meh, what's the point?

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

From the outside I see this:
A developer is getting SCREWED!  This should NOT be able to happen. It seems to me that this developer was in place first with his plans and then TDA comes in and decides to push him aside.
IMO the ballpark downtown is stuuuupid.
Who goes to Tulsa Drillers games anyway? Come on who?
Leave the damn thing where it is. OR look far far ahead and see it on the banks of the river in Jenks surrounded by an amusement park.
Downtown is not really the place.
There is no parking for all those people who DONT go to the games anyway.
Let The Brady?BlueDome districts continue to "self develop"!!!! That way they will surrvive w/out some head up _ss "council" "authority" screwing it up.
Any council or authority involvement is kiss of death or it seems so in recent past.
Private capitalism wins everytime. Here's what authorities and councils need to concentrate on:
Streets and schools.
But what do I know?
I do not know the developer and am not familar with his recent past projects but he got Shanghai'd on this. I hope some clarity strikes a firebrand hero w/ some vision on some of these "councils/authorities".
Their collective vision is apparent just consider this past story: concern mounts over stains on BOk Center...duh! build a building that has sloped exterior walls...of course it will have stains running down the walls...who didnt know this?...Iam using that to attempt to make a broader point...it seems experience is bending to something besides common actual knowledge. ( I think it's a cool looking building; but knew/pretty sure it would have blemishes on the outside).
It's like the powers that be are trying to throw a party with out proper planning...the results are horrific.
let the flaming begin.

What's to flame? You speak the truth.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

Someone else decided they want to do this project and Mr. Wilkins is getting the old end around.....Pretty sad...But it happens alot in this town.....

Well, at least they could give him a courtesy reach-around while they are doing that...

That's what I'm saying--his best option now is to push for another parcel in the district.  

I'll be interested to see what kind of hotel goes in on that corner, and who puts the deal together.  And if Kathy Taylor cries about it.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

Someone else decided they want to do this project and Mr. Wilkins is getting the old end around.....Pretty sad...But it happens alot in this town.....

Well, at least they could give him a courtesy reach-around while they are doing that...

That's what I'm saying--his best option now is to push for another parcel in the district.  

I'll be interested to see what kind of hotel goes in on that corner, and who puts the deal together.  And if Kathy Taylor cries about it.

Curious if it might be the hotel originally rumored for the old city hall site.  Wonder if that would still be built.

[waterboy]

As usual I'm going to be a bit contrarian. I notice the developer does not seem too steamed. That's curious. You guys are more angry than he is! Maybe he's more realistic.

We are nurtured on a fantasy that involves a fellow having a good idea, investing hard work and money into it and then reaping a huge bonanza for his efforts. We're impressed when someone does their homework, acts on a hunch and buys the one little parcel of land that the huge corporation neglected to buy before announcing Disneyland is moving in. Thats the dream. Get the big payoff for the better mousetrap or the savvy buy.

The problem is that it mostly happens in folklore, in the movies, on a small scale, or by someone who already has tons of power. Edison stole much of his success from Tesla after hiring him firing him and working to destroy him. That's reality.

But here's the thing. Novus was apparently still in the negotiation phase and TDA wasn't negotiating much. In steps huge amounts of money behind a new stadium but part of the deal is control over outlying parcels. Remember, government is about overwhelming, incontrovertible CONTROL. Its the language of power. If you don't control, you don't have power. When decisions are made in the future applying to this stadium area, they don't want to have to ask Novus for their opinion or permission. They don't appreciate or respond very well to those who ascribe to the fantasy of the little guy.

Realistically, this is too big a committment of money to keep negotiations open and allow a smaller player to jump in. Not saying any of this is right, but its closer to reality.

[Double A]

Exclusive: Drillers stadium deadline comes - no deal yet

Lamson ain't signed s#*t.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

As usual I'm going to be a bit contrarian. I notice the developer does not seem too steamed. That's curious. You guys are more angry than he is! Maybe he's more realistic.

We are nurtured on a fantasy that involves a fellow having a good idea, investing hard work and money into it and then reaping a huge bonanza for his efforts. We're impressed when someone does their homework, acts on a hunch and buys the one little parcel of land that the huge corporation neglected to buy before announcing Disneyland is moving in. Thats the dream. Get the big payoff for the better mousetrap or the savvy buy.

The problem is that it mostly happens in folklore, in the movies, on a small scale, or by someone who already has tons of power. Edison stole much of his success from Tesla after hiring him firing him and working to destroy him. That's reality.

But here's the thing. Novus was apparently still in the negotiation phase and TDA wasn't negotiating much. In steps huge amounts of money behind a new stadium but part of the deal is control over outlying parcels. Remember, government is about overwhelming, incontrovertible CONTROL. Its the language of power. If you don't control, you don't have power. When decisions are made in the future applying to this stadium area, they don't want to have to ask Novus for their opinion or permission. They don't appreciate or respond very well to those who ascribe to the fantasy of the little guy.

Realistically, this is too big a committment of money to keep negotiations open and allow a smaller player to jump in. Not saying any of this is right, but its closer to reality.

He is one of the most laid back people you will meet....It would be out of character for him to be steamed....

[Rico]

And we were all worried about Wally World...

Any body need a reason to boycott the Drillers..?

One just fell in your lap.

TulsaNow carries a lot of muscle when they speak to the Mayor... Don't let anyone tell you any different.

I hope they have made their concerns regarding this action well known at City Hall.

This will change the entire "weave of the fabric" Kathy..

We will have a Faux square block of the best density $money$ can buy.

Aye H20 Disneyland this...[}:)]

[waterboy]

Novus is smart. Aye, had I been that smart at 34. He lives to fight another day with allies who once smited him. He knows to pick his battles well.

I hope Kathy's "planned development" around the stadium is better than Main Mall.

[ARGUS]

YO HOSS....wrong. Yo YO I be livin' in the 105 beeeyactch!

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

YO HOSS....wrong. Yo YO I be livin' in the 105 beeeyactch!

close enough to Jenks still...that was my whole point was that you lived further south with your Jenks comments.

Although you do sound a little like you might be 'livin in the 105..beeotch'.

[:O]

[cannon_fodder]

quote:The city and the Tulsa Drillers late Friday agreed to a 10-day extension of exclusive negotiations to move the Double A baseball team downtown.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080808_11_Thee628386

Anyone keeping track of the number of "final deadlines."  initially it was May. Than July.  Then today.  Now we are on to the 18th.  2 balls, 2 strikes and a foul on the development.  

Still no men on base, no runs scored (ie. stadium built), and my guess is a recorded error (discourage future developers).

Still disappointed.  I waited to hear the "other side" and it was essentially "we are not screwing 120 so others can profit."  They never really explained why then they ARE screwing 120 lofts.

Did I miss something?  Blah blah TDA's decision.  Comprehensive development.  Mixed use density.  Blah blah.  Control.

Ok, great.  What in this development lacks those aspects and what can be done to resolve it?  

No wonder Bass Pro and all that came with it is in Broken Arrow, the aquarium and major retail developments are now in Jenks, the 66ers are in Bixby, and Bell's will be popping up soon in a suburb near you.  Did I mention AA will be having layoffs, several startups have left, and even a couple oil companies moved jobs recently?    The suburbs are having massive population growth as Tulsa is stagnant.  The schools had a scandal.  North Tulsa is still festering.  The old city hall and other buildings sit empty. The New City Hall lacks tenants required to make it profitable (ignoring the fact we are STILL paying for other buildings). There has been NO development around the BOk center but-for a small local restaurant. And there has been no good city-driven good news on the job front (eg bringing a new company to town, getting an existing company to do a major expansion, etc.) But at least we finally fixed the streets.

What the hell has Tulsa's government done for us lately?

If anyone in government is reading this, I don't have the answers.  That's why I elected you.  Figure something out.  What we are currently doing isn't working.


This is why I vote for Paul Tay.  How much worse could he be?  And that's a sad, sad statement.  At least he would be entertaining.


[edit]PS.  Did I mention the people in the comments section of the World are mostly idiots with NO CLUE what they are talking about.  "Nothing to do downtown..."    "No one goes downtown..."   "600 people at Drillers games on free-ticket night..."   "Traffic is horrible (after a sporting event, no!)."  [/edit]