Mayor Taylor To Give BOK $7 Mil for Great Plains

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

It's been awhile but didn't the City put up collateral for this note, collateral that the $7M would essentially be buying back?

Maybe yes, maybe no.  Supposedly, land around the Air Force Plant #3 was pledged.

However, the Tulsa World reported that maybe the bank neglected to file a proper lien entry........

Hence, NO collateral on the loan.

Ooops!

How about asking former TAA/TAIT attorney Mr. Moneybags Studenny for the $7 million.

Didn't he have E&O insurance?

Hmmmmmmh?

[:O]

Good point.

Would love to see the original manipulators held accountable. Especially the lieyers should be called out for shenanigans.

But to try to capitalize politicaly like Medschlock et al are doing indicates their unwillingness to move on to more important issues. He's either running for office or trying to get a better job within the worst MSM organization in the world. I bet he'll be like a little attack dog. The people may not like the issue and the tax loss but it pales compared to the other waste that Councilor Medlock failed to see going on during his tenure. After all, under his "leadership" our streets ended up in their current condition and we got 2025 passed. Talk about shenanigans. But dare he try to remove inept civil servants?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Sorry can't listen at 2:30.  The headline of the thread and Chris' message doesn't specify whether it's city money or her personal funds.  I know which one to guess, but it's still a little cryptic.  Can she make decisions like this w/o full council approval?

Curiously, in advance of the recent city council election, BOK principal shareholder George Kaiser, his sister Ruth Kaiser, and BOK executive personnel were VERY generous in their contributions to various city councilors, who generally won their races.

Will these self-same city councilors now be beholden to vote for BOK's financial interest to repay them for their $7 million Great Plains Airlines loan??

Hmmmmmh?

[:O]

FB, what if I own stock in BOK? What should my position be?

Sorry I could not listen to Medshlock and Bates on Fix Radio. I did not want to get damaged goods on a so-called "fair and balanced" radio channel. Did they have a representative from the city or BOK?

Why don't we do this in the future. Let's not let city funds go towards anything outside of citizen protection, education and public works. Let economic development go through the private sector.

How come these radio magnets aren't up in arms about the Areema which will be a far greater disaster than Great Plains? And what institution seems to be shoring up that financial loser?

The bank appears to be doing reasonably well.

Their Net Income for 2007 was a mere $217 million.  

So, $7 million from the Tulsa Taxpayers would amount to about 3% of their net income for last year.

Mr. Kaiser, at last estimate, was worth between $8 - 11 BILLION dollars.

He won't starve one way or the other.

Tulsa city tax payers would get hammered a bit more, on top of their disposable income being vacumned from their pockets to pay for much higher fuel, heating, electricity, and food costs.

But, heh, easy come, easy GO.

Maybe we'll have already forgotten about the $7 million when the BOK Arena opens in September 2008.....

[:O]

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

It's been awhile but didn't the City put up collateral for this note, collateral that the $7M would essentially be buying back?

Maybe yes, maybe no.  Supposedly, land around the Air Force Plant #3 was pledged.

However, the Tulsa World reported that maybe the bank neglected to file a proper lien entry........

Hence, NO collateral on the loan.

Ooops!

How about asking former TAA/TAIT attorney Mr. Moneybags Studenny for the $7 million.

Didn't he have E&O insurance?

Hmmmmmmh?

[:O]

Good point.

Would love to see the original manipulators held accountable. Especially the lieyers should be called out for shenanigans.

But to try to capitalize politicaly like Medschlock et al are doing indicates their unwillingness to move on to more important issues. He's either running for office or trying to get a better job within the worst MSM organization in the world. I bet he'll be like a little attack dog. The people may not like the issue and the tax loss but it pales compared to the other waste that Councilor Medlock failed to see going on during his tenure. After all, under his "leadership" our streets ended up in their current condition and we got 2025 passed. Talk about shenanigans. But dare he try to remove inept civil servants?

Oh, Mr. Medlock is just doing his new job:

Local Talk Radio host.

It's in the job description.

It's a topic of likely local interest:  

The fall-out from the local PUBLIC funding and subsequent failure of Great Plains Airlines after a mere three short years of operations.

[FOTD]

The bank and the man are our cities two best assets.

Let's not bite the hand that feeds us.....

[Wrinkle]

Been expecting this. And, to no surprise, it's a nearly invisible agenda item, placed at the last minute and expecting Council to vote on Thursday. The "Tulsa Way".

There's so many things wrong about this it cannot even be addressed in a short posting.

FOTD, are you on BOK's Board?

While we're looking into this may also be a good time to take another look at that $7 million loan made in 2006 to TARE (an Authority with major cash flow and no need to be borrowing money). Remember, it was TARE Ms.Kitty obtained $11 Million in post-ice-storm cleanup funding. When FEMA reimburses the City, oddly, there's going to be about $8.25 million (75% of $11M) which has no place to go except the City's reserve fund. Actually, the final clean-up cost was greater than that, so should be even more.

Also remember that when the reserve fund reaches a certain point, your Ad Valorem tax goes DOWN, so it's important for them to find a use for this money or your taxes reduce.

[cannon_fodder]

AOX wrote
How come these radio magnets aren't up in arms about the Areema which will be a far greater disaster than Great Plains? And what institution seems to be shoring up that financial loser?
[/i]

What's an Areema?  If you can't even discuss it without baby talk, why should we bother?

And the arena is infrastructure.  Any profits that it happens to generate go to the city.  Great Planes was a private for profit venture - see the difference?  I would be happy to discuss the merits of economic development with you (again), but in general the city should not be subsidizing private enterprise.  

Roads, schools, sewer, zoning... standard.  Parks, trails, convention centers, and venues are also historically items provided by municipalities to improve the standard of living.  I'm not sure what a large loan to a private for-profit has to do with an arena for general use, specifically in this instance.

So far your responses are:

1) Who cares, we waste tons of money.
2) So, we spent tons of money on the arena
and 3) I own stock in BOkF, so I'm happy to suck up the money.

Unfortunately, the up tick in your stock from the $7mil in the nearly $4BIL company won't offset your share of the tax you'll pay in to cover it.  But it's good to see your sense of civic duty kick in.

BOKF and Kaiser are both valuable assets to this community.  But so are the police, fire, teachers, and the thousands of other workers.  So if we are handing out wads of cash for being valuable to the city I'll hold my hand out as the head of an educated young family that decided to live in Tulsa.

Do you have a persuasive argument in favor of dolling out this money or just random responses?

Also, why stick this in the agenda and vote so quickly on it?
- - -

And let me take care of it for you:  blah blah blah stop with the personal attacks your so mean cannon_fodder.  Now can we get to some real discussion of this matter?

[FOTD]

The blame needs to be laid at the feet of those in charge at the time the deal went down.

The bank at that time was doing you and me and the taxpayers a favor. Or so they must have thought at the time. They thought they were helping create jobs which would increase the tax base. And no doubt they were doing what banks try to do in making loans. But they would not have made such favorable terms, not acruing interest nor forgiving indebtedness, had they not wanted to help the city.

The deal went south. The taxpayers need to blame the deal makers and not scapegoat the lender. We do have a moral obligation. If I were a lender, I'd have a difficult time lending to some who might suggest the borrower/guarantor has no legal obligation to repay the debt.

CF, I never said I owned stock in the bank. The Areema gets its nickname from the 2025 "vision" thing being reamed down our throats. It will cost you much more than $20.00. And do not give any loss leader or economic driver non sense.

Wrinkle, that argument about ad valorem taxes going down someday is bunk.

What this is in plain terms is politics. I asked a friend who listened to Faux radio at 2:30 if there were any defenders of the city or the bank on Medshlocks show. They said absolutely not. The news tonight did not report any of this either. And there is no doubt the bank may have had political motives as well.

Corporate welfare sucks. That's what this was a failed attempt at. Is it not surprising you lash out at FOTD for wanting the city to keep their word, to do the honorable thing, and to do what good partners do for each other.

And the owners of the bank do for this community that which can not be quantified.

[sgrizzle]

I don't think we should skip out on an obligation due to an error in paperwork. Hopefully we are settling it for a reduced amount. If that is the case I think we should just count ourselves lucky that Kaiser isn't a D--k and suing us for the full amount plus some.

[Chris Medlock]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

It's been awhile but didn't the City put up collateral for this note, collateral that the $7M would essentially be buying back?

Maybe yes, maybe no.  Supposedly, land around the Air Force Plant #3 was pledged.

However, the Tulsa World reported that maybe the bank neglected to file a proper lien entry........

Hence, NO collateral on the loan.

Ooops!

How about asking former TAA/TAIT attorney Mr. Moneybags Studenny for the $7 million.

Didn't he have E&O insurance?

Hmmmmmmh?

[:O]

Good point.

Would love to see the original manipulators held accountable. Especially the lieyers should be called out for shenanigans.

But to try to capitalize politicaly like Medschlock et al are doing indicates their unwillingness to move on to more important issues. He's either running for office or trying to get a better job within the worst MSM organization in the world. I bet he'll be like a little attack dog. The people may not like the issue and the tax loss but it pales compared to the other waste that Councilor Medlock failed to see going on during his tenure. After all, under his "leadership" our streets ended up in their current condition and we got 2025 passed. Talk about shenanigans. But dare he try to remove inept civil servants?

What waste on the streets? Jim Mautino and I tried to stop the latest 3rd Penny question because it was riddled with pork and was for 6 years rather than the two we said needed to be done to finish what was already promised to voters in 2001.

The Gang of Five stopped the annexation of the 23 square miles of North Tulsa County because we couldn't afford to take care of the roads we had inside city limits as it was.

Gang of Five was torn to shreds for asking why we couldn't use water sold to the suburbs as a revenue source to pay for our deteriorating infrastructure, including streets. We were told that wasn't neighborly.

I was the first councilor to fight the Bixby/Jenks bridge because it would force us to spend tens of millions of dollars to upgrade Yale from 96th to 121st, draining needed dollars to fix existing roads.

In 2005 I debated Randi Miller and told every media outlet that we needed to end Four-to-Fix the County to make those tax dollars available for streets and public safety. Ironic that Bill Martinson is now using my idea in his street proposal.

What were you doing at that time?

[Chris Medlock]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

The blame needs to be laid at the feet of those in charge at the time the deal went down.

The bank at that time was doing you and me and the taxpayers a favor. Or so they must have thought at the time. They thought they were helping create jobs which would increase the tax base. And no doubt they were doing what banks try to do in making loans. But they would not have made such favorable terms, not acruing interest nor forgiving indebtedness, had they not wanted to help the city.

The deal went south. The taxpayers need to blame the deal makers and not scapegoat the lender. We do have a moral obligation. If I were a lender, I'd have a difficult time lending to some who might suggest the borrower/guarantor has no legal obligation to repay the debt.

CF, I never said I owned stock in the bank. The Areema gets its nickname from the 2025 "vision" thing being reamed down our throats. It will cost you much more than $20.00. And do not give any loss leader or economic driver non sense.

Wrinkle, that argument about ad valorem taxes going down someday is bunk.

What this is in plain terms is politics. I asked a friend who listened to Faux radio at 2:30 if there were any defenders of the city or the bank on Medshlocks show. They said absolutely not. The news tonight did not report any of this either. And there is no doubt the bank may have had political motives as well.

Corporate welfare sucks. That's what this was a failed attempt at. Is it not surprising you lash out at FOTD for wanting the city to keep their word, to do the honorable thing, and to do what good partners do for each other.

And the owners of the bank do for this community that which can not be quantified.

We placed a call at 12:30 from our news department to John Durkee, the mayor's new director of communications (formerly of KRMG). We wanted to get a direct statement defending the action. He didn't call back until 4:10, ten minutes after I went off the air.

I spoke with him and he told us they had no comment on the issue and referred me to City Attorney Deidre Dexter, who had someone in her office handling legal questions.

I asked him "what about the political questions?" He asked what I meant. I said "How about that Mayor Taylor was a member of the BOK Board of Directors immediately before her becoming Mayor?"

He said, "I don't know anything about that."

I also placed a call to G. T. Bynum...no response...John Eagleton...no response...and Jack Henderson, who said he's leaning toward voting in favor, but didn't want to come on the air.

What more were we supposed to do in a couple of hours with a story that is breaking this fast...in...uh...your "professional" opinion?

[Chris Medlock]

If your interested in why the Council can do very little to stop Mayor Taylor, you can read my latest entry on my blog at:

http://www.chrismedlock.com/2008/06/council-powerless-to-stop-taylor.html

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Chris Medlock

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

It's been awhile but didn't the City put up collateral for this note, collateral that the $7M would essentially be buying back?

Maybe yes, maybe no.  Supposedly, land around the Air Force Plant #3 was pledged.

However, the Tulsa World reported that maybe the bank neglected to file a proper lien entry........

Hence, NO collateral on the loan.

Ooops!

How about asking former TAA/TAIT attorney Mr. Moneybags Studenny for the $7 million.

Didn't he have E&O insurance?

Hmmmmmmh?

[:O]

Good point.

Would love to see the original manipulators held accountable. Especially the lieyers should be called out for shenanigans.

But to try to capitalize politicaly like Medschlock et al are doing indicates their unwillingness to move on to more important issues. He's either running for office or trying to get a better job within the worst MSM organization in the world. I bet he'll be like a little attack dog. The people may not like the issue and the tax loss but it pales compared to the other waste that Councilor Medlock failed to see going on during his tenure. After all, under his "leadership" our streets ended up in their current condition and we got 2025 passed. Talk about shenanigans. But dare he try to remove inept civil servants?

What waste on the streets? Jim Mautino and I tried to stop the latest 3rd Penny question because it was riddled with pork and was for 6 years rather than the two we said needed to be done to finish what was already promised to voters in 2001.

The Gang of Five stopped the annexation of the 23 square miles of North Tulsa County because we couldn't afford to take care of the roads we had inside city limits as it was.

Gang of Five was torn to shreds for asking why we couldn't use water sold to the suburbs as a revenue source to pay for our deteriorating infrastructure, including streets. We were told that wasn't neighborly.

I was the first councilor to fight the Bixby/Jenks bridge because it would force us to spend tens of millions of dollars to upgrade Yale from 96th to 121st, draining needed dollars to fix existing roads.

In 2005 I debated Randi Miller and told every media outlet that we needed to end Four-to-Fix the County to make those tax dollars available for streets and public safety. Ironic that Bill Martinson is now using my idea in his street proposal.

What were you doing at that time?

Now... now Chris.. We all are aware of your many accomplishments while on the City dole......

I know an election year has given you and your friends that fever.

 Let's just blame the people that actually obligated us to this debt...

If you want to crucify someone... crucify Susan... She gave the City's word we would back the debt.

The court has ruled has it not...?

I, for one, am not about to defend anyones actions in regard to the investigation into this matter by the City Council.. ie the gang of five

There was just enough dirt to make it interesting.. But there was a whole lot of fizzle and no pop.

They pulled the plug on your funds... wah wah wah.

You saw fit to jump behind LaFortuna who strangely enough received the same sort trial by  innuendo that you are mounting against Mayor Taylor..

Can't say I blame you.. With a dufus like McCain what can a Republican do..?

By the way did the "I" ever become a complete...?

[inteller]

Well, Master Bates puts everything in black and white.  If Krazy Kathy decides to foist tax payer dollars when it has already been deemed that we don't need to then taxpayers can sue her qui tam for misappropriation of funds and get her removed from office.  I say go for it.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

The bank and the man are our cities two best assets.

Let's not bite the hand that feeds us.....

You could not be more of an ignorant dude....Lol...You are a laughingstock...

[inteller]

+1