bicycle courtesy and the new bike hiway

[waterboy]

Ed, could you remind your fellow bikers that runners are at risk versus bikers since we have no way of knowing you're coming up from behind unless you speak, ring a chime or grunt?  These new wide asphalt mini freeways were originally called "running paths" and the signs for "yield to pedestrians" still are in place.

I'm not talking about the pink balloon tired bikes that generally move slowly and are driven by people we know are unaware of rules of the road. I'm talking the helmeted, sunglassed, spandex dressed speedsters that know better but are too focussed to let me know they're approaching. Several times this week I've been about to move to one side or the other to avoid a dog, a child or just exit and been startled by a 20mph tough guy who can't think 5 feet in front of himself. My count is about 2 riders out of 10 announce themselves.

And Mr. K if you're reading this...please leave the west side paths alone. Please. Unless you add a crushed rock side path to them. They are comforting in their small town feel.

[Breadburner]

If you runners knew your right from your left it would work....And get the ipods out of your ears.....

[Ed W]

Trail conflicts are a constant problem and they're worse when it's crowded.  The River Park trail has a recommended speed limit of 10mph.  Up around the cafe, even that may be too fast.  My son - a kid with only 2 speeds, stopped, and as fast as he can go - recognized that the River Park trail isn't meant for speed.  If he could figure that out at 12 or 13, why do so many adults have problems with the concept?  Given a mild tail wind, a reasonably fit cyclist can cruise at 20-25 mph, far too fast for the River Trail, but probably safe enough on a less crowded one like the Osage Prairie.

I haven't been along the River Park trail for quite a while, so much of my information is out of date.  But I do recall that the widening and improvements were intended to have separate trails for pedestrians and cyclists.  Is that the case now?

Here's the problem with overtaking pedestrians.  First, if you yell, "On your left!" which is the usual way of indicating you're about to overtake and pass, some pedestrians will turn to their left in order to look back at you.  They step directly into your intended path.  A simple bell may be a better choice, unless like my son again, the pedestrian is wearing headphones at ear drum shattering volumes.  He simply won't hear you.  And I won't go off on a diatribe about in-line skaters, peds on cellphones, or those with dogs roaming about on 30 foot leashes.

From my point of view, when there are lots of pedestrians on the trail, leave it to them.  The safest thing for a cyclist is to ride at pedestrian speed (and who wants to do that?) or go out on the road where it's safer and faster.  In Tulsa, it's perfectly legal for a cyclist to ignore the parallel trail and ride on the street.  It's safer too since cyclists and motor vehicle traffic operate under the same rules, while multi-use paths are far more chaotic.

We should have another BAG meeting soon.  And there's a good chance Patrick will see this too.  I'll bring it up in the meeting.

[waterboy]

Thanks. Its quite true that I see a lot of runners and walkers with Ipods and they are clueless. Nothing worse than a family walking their dogs and children taking up the entire width and looking at you like you're going against traffic on a one way street. Women walking in groups seem oblivious too.

I run from the 11th & Riverside to Pedestrian bridge area. Noticed less of a problem on a bike ride from PSO to 71st below Turkey mtn. Now thats a nice ride (as long as you ignore the treatment plant).

[Conan71]

I was expecting one trail would be marked for runners and one for bikes when I was on the new path between 31st & 21st.  I kept looking for a sign so runners wouldn't flip me off and never saw one.  I agree people walking three or four dogs or families riding three abreast is a hazard.  Dogs not on a leash is a real no-no.

[Ed W]

I don't ride for recreation very often.  Mostly, it's commuting back and forth to work, saving money for the family and trying to send less of it to people who hate Americans.  One of the best kept secrets of regular commuting on a bicycle is that it's safer and easier than nearly any other cycling activity.  I see the same motorists day after day, and they come to expect a cyclist or two along the route.  There are no paths or trails, yet I make it to work without incident.  It can become so routine that it's boring.

There's a nice piece on the Community Cycling Project over on Urban Tulsa Weekly:
  http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A23678  

The focus of the CCP is to get people onto bikes in order to increase their range of job opportunities.  We've had some successes and some failures, but we'll keep at it.

[dax]

I ride nearly every day 11th to 71st at different times of day.  Most of the time the trail is very lightly used.  Biker etiquette is to defer to all others.  I'm the guy who wears the pollen mask.  If I come upon a pair of riders to go around I make a noise with my gears that they hear, and say on your left having slowed down.  There is plenty of open trail to open up the speed.  The newspaper indicated that bikers have the new asphalt nearer the street.  I assume the millions spent will include signs to that effect.  I regret the blacktop (more pavement than park").  I resent the cavalier way the park has been closed to install the atrocity.  I question the word "charity" in regard to Mr.K's contribution.  Charity is something given the needy.  I use the trail more than any and needed this cross between Berliner strasse and Disneyland NOT.  You gravel runners I guess will just have to eat cake. And where gravel runners had kept the grass edged, now it will take a paid person to edge that nifty brick trim on the asphalt. Thank you allowing me to grouse.

[Ed W]

According to the Tulsa Area Triathletes list, there will be a chat section south of 31st extending to 71st.  Some of the runners prefer it saying that it's easier on their knees than the less forgiving asphalt.

[dax]

Perhaps Der Kaiser will provide limo service for the poor slobs who had always previously enjoyed their gravel trail north of 31st Street.  Maybe at least they can eat Bavarian Kirch Torte.  What we need now is a great humanitarian and philanthropic charity to pony up the dough for edging the Black Asphalt Road. Or are taxpayers going to have to shoulder that burden.  Danke schoen, Herr Kaiser, FUR NICHTS!

[RecycleMichael]

I was in Madison, Wisconsin last week and bikes were everywhere. Thousands of bikes...everywhere...

I noticed that many of the bikes had baskets and racks and special-made backpacks. People actually carried quite a bit of stuff with them while they road. Textbooks, groceries, laptops, all carried while they bike.

I never see anyone in Tulsa ever carry anything with them while they bike. There is that one guy who pulls a trailer, but I don't think he is what I would call utilitarian is his method.

[bacjz00]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I was in Madison, Wisconsin last week and bikes were everywhere. Thousands of bikes...everywhere...

I noticed that many of the bikes had baskets and racks and special-made backpacks. People actually carried quite a bit of stuff with them while they road. Textbooks, groceries, laptops, all carried while they bike.

I never see anyone in Tulsa ever carry anything with them while they bike. There is that one guy who pulls a trailer, but I don't think he is what I would call utilitarian is his method.

Madison is home to one of the top 10 largest public universities in the US.  Their enrollment tops 40,000.  I would be more surprised if you DIDN'T see lots of bicycles there.  

Don't even get me started on higher-ed in Tulsa.  But let's just say we're about as POLAR opposite from Madison when it comes to the bike-riding demographic.

[tulsarufflebutt]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I was in Madison, Wisconsin last week and bikes were everywhere. Thousands of bikes...everywhere...

I noticed that many of the bikes had baskets and racks and special-made backpacks. People actually carried quite a bit of stuff with them while they road. Textbooks, groceries, laptops, all carried while they bike.

I never see anyone in Tulsa ever carry anything with them while they bike. There is that one guy who pulls a trailer, but I don't think he is what I would call utilitarian is his method.

Madison, WI doesn't export the bike culture like Portland, OR.

[TulsaSue]

I keep planning to make tee-shirts for my family that have the "Yield to Peds" sign on front and back to remind the bikers. They come up so fast and some don't even bother to warn people that they are coming. They don't slow down, and it's hard to get out of the way fast enough.

[tulsarufflebutt]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaSue

I keep planning to make tee-shirts for my family that have the "Yield to Peds" sign on front and back to remind the bikers. They come up so fast and some don't even bother to warn people that they are coming. They don't slow down, and it's hard to get out of the way fast enough.

That's the reason why bikes should be on Riverside, with traffic, NOT mixing in with peds.

[cannon_fodder]

The problem with the "go to the streets" concept is that Riverside is a very busy, very fast, and winding commuter road.  There is not room for bikers on the side of the road, and traffic is too heavy to allow a 20mph biker to shut down a lane during much of the day.  It would be (is not) safe for the biker and causes traffic problems (which is not safe for the drivers).

I don't mind serious bikers using roadways.  The ones who are MOVING and understand the rules of biking on the road (you are a vehicle and must follow the laws like any other).  But I don't want to cause a situation where my leisure rides with my boy are forced off the trails. And on Riverside, even seasoned riders will cause troubles because of the thoroughfare nature of that stretch of road.

The entire problem can be solved by using common trail courtesy.  "On the left" is standard language and is required on many organized events.  Walker/runners also need to stay to the right and be alert - they have the right of way but SHARE the path.  Dog walkers need to realize the harm a dog can cause to all others and restrain the animal accordingly (generally I make my dog SIT when a group of runners/bikers passes by.  It puts them at ease, keeps my dog safe, and reinforces my authoritay' over my animal).

If we can't share a 10' wide trail, there is little hope.