"Heart of Southdown"?

[BKDotCom]

what's with these new Spirit Bank convention center ads.     They definitely seem to poo-poo downtown in favor of "southtown"   (111th n Memorial)

Disclaimer:  I work at a competing bank

[safetyguy]

I don't know if it has anything to do with it or its coincidental, but where the Super Target is going is going to be calledSouth Town Market

I did think the ads were interesting since where the Spirit event center is already called Regal Plaza, so I'm assuming the signage will be changing.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by BKDotCom

what's with these new Spirit Bank convention center ads.     They definitely seem to poo-poo downtown in favor of "southtown"   (111th n Memorial)

Disclaimer:  I work at a competing bank

Interesting.  I know that the Tulsa Oilers used to use them; may still use them since there offices were essentially next door.  Wonder what's going to happen now that they will be playing in a building named for a competitor.

[dsjeffries]

I heard the radio spot earlier today and was utterly disgusted. "This isn't DOWNTOWN. It's SOUTHtown." Excuse me while I go barf. [xx(][xx(][xx(]

And not because I hate South Tulsa.  It's because the Remys are exploiting suburbanites' fears of anything that doesn't happen in a cul-de-sac.

[MichaelBates]

quote:Originally posted by dsjeffries

I heard the radio spot earlier today and was utterly disgusted. "This isn't DOWNTOWN. It's SOUTHtown." Excuse me while I go barf. [xx(][xx(][xx(]

And not because I hate South Tulsa.  It's because the Remys are exploiting suburbanites' fears of anything that doesn't happen in a cul-de-sac.

I had to be down south Sunday evening, and I took the opportunity to look around Regal Plaza and the Spirit Bank Events Center. It's not truly urban, but it makes gestures in the right direction. The events center entrance combines brick and glass to be both modern and classic. They appear to have storefronts all along the side that faces the rest of Regal Plaza. Would that all suburban developments were more like it.

[booWorld]

Perhaps the ads are exploiting suburbanites' fears of wasting time and lots of expensive gasoline driving all the way downtown only to face the frustration of not having the option of parking in multi-level underground garages located directly below their destinations.

[Gaspar]

Businesses attempt to make themselves "market-centric"  it's just a general rule of marketing.  Don't get so huffy about it.  It's the game.  The idea is to keep the ball in your control.  

The way to combat this is by capturing the ball yourself, not griping because the other team is working hard too.  

That's poor sportsmanship.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

Perhaps the ads are exploiting suburbanites' fears of wasting time and lots of expensive gasoline driving all the way downtown only to face the frustration of not having the option of parking in multi-level underground garages located directly below their destinations.

You forgot the word "free" in front of parking.

All the downtowners have to do is build light rail to access all the suburbs with park-and-ride lots.  We'll stay off your streets and maybe even patronize your businesses.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

Perhaps the ads are exploiting suburbanites' fears of wasting time and lots of expensive gasoline driving all the way downtown only to face the frustration of not having the option of parking in multi-level underground garages located directly below their destinations.

You forgot the word "free" in front of parking.

All the downtowners have to do is build light rail to access all the suburbs with park-and-ride lots.  We'll stay off your streets and maybe even patronize your businesses.

Wow! A suburbanite pushing for light rail!

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

Perhaps the ads are exploiting suburbanites' fears of wasting time and lots of expensive gasoline driving all the way downtown only to face the frustration of not having the option of parking in multi-level underground garages located directly below their destinations.

You forgot the word "free" in front of parking.

All the downtowners have to do is build light rail to access all the suburbs with park-and-ride lots.  We'll stay off your streets and maybe even patronize your businesses.

Wow! A suburbanite pushing for light rail!

As gas prices continue to climb, I bet that chorus will grow larger and louder.

[PonderInc]

I had to help an older lady use one of our "hi-tech" parking meters downtown today.  It WAS sort of confusing, since somebody had peeled all the numbers off the sidewalks (making it hard to identify the parking spot)...and the meter was facing the west (so the glare made it nearly impossible to read the display).

I took the time to help her deduce the parking spot number...explained how to punch the number before putting in her money...and read the almost illegible display out loud to her.

For my help, I was rewarded with the tired mantra: "I just HATE coming downtown!"

(She could have said: "Wow!  People downtown are so friendly and helpful!")

But it seems that kindness is impotent in the battle for hearts and minds when lousy parking meters are present...

(sigh)

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

Perhaps the ads are exploiting suburbanites' fears of wasting time and lots of expensive gasoline driving all the way downtown only to face the frustration of not having the option of parking in multi-level underground garages located directly below their destinations.

You forgot the word "free" in front of parking.

All the downtowners have to do is build light rail to access all the suburbs with park-and-ride lots.  We'll stay off your streets and maybe even patronize your businesses.

Wow! A suburbanite pushing for light rail!

I grew up living about 100 yards from a trolley stop (real trolley, steel rails and wheels, electric power) on what is now SEPTA Route 101 in suburban Philadelphia, PA.  That's one reason I object to people calling the rubber tired bus thing, that tries to look like a certain vintage trolley, a trolley.  I know what a real trolley is.  The housing density there was about like some areas of Tulsa (1/4 to 1/3 acre lots, single family houses, some duplexes, and a few apartments with 4 to 6 units) and the trolley was successful as a privately owned company until the late 1960s.  The big difference was/is that most people worked at places along the rail or in Philly, unlike Tulsa where people work all over the place.  The trolley was put in place in the early 1900s. The towns developed along the trolley line and other rail lines in the area. TOD, 100 years ago.  I expect that the people at INCOG and MTTA have already studied the good and bad points about the Phila area transit system.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

I had to help an older lady use one of our "hi-tech" parking meters downtown today.  It WAS sort of confusing, since somebody had peeled all the numbers off the sidewalks (making it hard to identify the parking spot)...and the meter was facing the west (so the glare made it nearly impossible to read the display).

I took the time to help her deduce the parking spot number...explained how to punch the number before putting in her money...and read the almost illegible display out loud to her.

For my help, I was rewarded with the tired mantra: "I just HATE coming downtown!"

(She could have said: "Wow!  People downtown are so friendly and helpful!")

But it seems that kindness is impotent in the battle for hearts and minds when lousy parking meters are present...

(sigh)

I can empathize with her though, especially if she doesn't come downtown alot (which I don't unless it's hockey season, then I'm down there 32 times at least from late October to mid March).

Like last night, I wanted to take some photos of the arena, and I took my usual route and got off 244 at 1st street, came south on 1st to Cheyenne, turned left, and they had Cheyenne blocked from 2nd to 4th.  Screwed me up.  And of course, with the hellatious one way street nightmare this city's downtown has, I had to track all the way back up to Cincinnati, then down to 6th Street, and back on to Denver so I could park in the Tulsa Builders parking lot just east of the arena.  Usually, my route south on Cheyenne can garner me access to this same parking lot.  I realized that street crews were working on asphalt laying on that section of 3rd Street between Denver and Cheyenne.  Just a pain.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

I had to help an older lady use one of our "hi-tech" parking meters downtown today.  It WAS sort of confusing, since somebody had peeled all the numbers off the sidewalks (making it hard to identify the parking spot)...and the meter was facing the west (so the glare made it nearly impossible to read the display).

I took the time to help her deduce the parking spot number...explained how to punch the number before putting in her money...and read the almost illegible display out loud to her.

For my help, I was rewarded with the tired mantra: "I just HATE coming downtown!"

(She could have said: "Wow!  People downtown are so friendly and helpful!")

But it seems that kindness is impotent in the battle for hearts and minds when lousy parking meters are present...

(sigh)

I believe that most suburbanites don't think that downtown people are unfriendly.  It is the city itself that can be "unfriendly" to an outsider.  Downtown wants to attract business from outside the IDL and immediate surroundings. The only way to get there presently is by car, with some possible exceptions.  Then, when we get to downtown, we are faced with what I call parking extortion.  (During normal business hours.) Parking meters and other paid parking are just one more way to suck money from the wallets of visitors.  Merchants will claim they want the turnover created by the meters. The same could be accomplished by chalk marking the tire treads by a meterperson (used to be metermaid) on the city payroll. The city would be providing a service to the merchants by insuring traffic turnover while not giving the impression to visitors that all the city wants is MORE MONEY. There is already someone patrolling the parking areas or there wouldn't be any parking ticket revenue, (oops, parking enforcement) ANOTHER money grab.

I think that Southroads, Southland, Woodland Hills etc might have had a different story if they had put parking meters in every parking spot. They would have been justified by using downtown logic. That real estate and blacktop certainly weren't free. They may have still been successful as there was plenty of parking available.  People talk about walkable shopping.  Once you get to the shopping center, it is walkable.  Lots of stores all close to each other. You can buy a few arms full of stuff, take it to your car and go back and shop some more. Shopping using any public transportation will limit you to what you can carry or drag in one trip.  There isn't typically enough variety of stores in the malls in my opinion as I like to shop for things other than clothes and chain fast food. I know, typical male over 21.

To try to summarize why suburbanites "hate to go downtown":
It's inconvenient. It's expensive. There are strange new rules to play by.  With a few cultural exceptions (PAC, Old Lady on Brady, soon to be BOK Center and the Ball Park), there really isn't much reason to go except for things like jury duty, paying traffic tickets etc. Not exactly pleasant to most.

I think the city can be successful again by providing goods and services that cannot be supported on every 2nd mile arterial intersection.  (An indication that the suburban density may be more than some would like to admit.) Getting there will need to be convenient and user friendly. Telling a visitor that walking several blocks from a remote parking area is good for the city will not necessarily make the visitor want to do so. Downtown circulator street cars (real trolleys) would help, even more than a bus system.  The marketing  plan for the city will need to be more inviting to suburbanites. We all need to get rid of the them vs. us attitude.

This wound up longer than I anticipated. Hope I didn't bore anyone toooo much.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

I believe that most suburbanites don't think that downtown people are unfriendly.  I

I've never found anyone unfriendly downtown.  I love to go downtown, there just isn't that much draw.  

I know it sounds silly, but as an old marketing guy, I understand the simple draw that downtown (used to have) is lacking.  For the right price i'll tell you.  []

Ok.  For the sake of Tulsa, I'll tell you for free. [:I]  

Where are the hubs of activity in Tulsa?  What do they typically surround?  

Ok, I'll make it easier.  

What turns an average traffic of over 1,000 people every two hours and almost ensures the patronage of the businesses around it?

A good one will rotate 5,000 to 10,000 people every day.  Very simple investment for the city with huge returns in surrounding development.

You guys guess and I'll tell you when you're getting warm.