TCC Downtown

[Townsend]

This is in the former car dealership/Tulsa 66'ers HQ that KMO has been attempting to lease for years, correct?  Great building from the street, but limited use without extensive interior modifications.  Hopefully this works.

Correct.

Per the article:

About 2,000 square feet will be added, and the building will be renovated to include classrooms and offices

[godboko71]

Sounds like win to me an existing building is reused and added to. Might as well use what we got!

[sgrizzle]

Given TCC's recent history with buildings I'm nervous that they accidentally checked the wrong box on a form.

[SXSW]

TCC is about to have new leadership with a new president being chosen this summer.  Out of three candidates one is from Tulsa and is VP of research and institutional investment at OSU-Tulsa while the other two are from smaller community colleges in Minnesota.  Hopefully the new leadership will continue investing in the metro campus.  I know TCC wants to build up its health sciences offerings along Cincinnati.  A technology center, entrepreneurial incubator and conference facility (replacing the Skyline center) would be nice additions to the downtown campus.

http://m.tulsaworld.com/news/education/three-finalists-for-tulsa-community-college-president-named/article_22bfdf0f-95ff-5b53-a887-76cc7d8f2f13.html

[Townsend]

TYPros Looks for Public Vote on Parking Contest

Slide Show available.

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/typros-looks-public-vote-parking-contest

Tulsa's Young Professionals has opened voting on projects to redevelop downtown parking to the public.

TYPros' Street CReD event focused on making south downtown a walkable, enjoyable place, and this contest is a continuation of that. Chair Isaac Rocha said it's another way to get people thinking about an area that could be more than parking lots.

"We're hoping to show the potential of what could happen with the surface parking," Rocha said. "Hopefully funders in the private sector will see the potential and possible look at one of these projects and say, 'We should have this in our south downtown.'"

Architects submitted ideas ranging from a food truck park to a green space. Kenton Grant said his firm went with a sports complex because there are only professional venues downtown right now.

"You have professional fields at the Drillers," Grant said. "You have the BOK Center, which brings in hockey and other events, but there wasn't really anything with a community tie to sports.

"And that's why we really liked and grabbed onto the idea of having a sports complex that was nonprofessional based, purely for the community, the schools and the people of Tulsa."

Drawings of the concepts are on display at Foolish Things coffee, 1001 S Main St. Voting is online at bit.ly/votecred. A winner will be announced July 16.

[SXSW]

I like this one, creating an innovation center/hub and incubator for start-ups.  https://www.tulsachamber.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/MilesAssociates.pdf

The soccer field would be cool on the lot to the south though.  It could also include a rec center for use by TCC and downtown workers/residents.

[TheArtist]

  I like this one the best.   https://www.tulsachamber.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/1Architecture.pdf

While not personally thrilled with the "artistry" of the design, it seems to be the best "pedestrian friendly" wise which is more important.  When I look at a project I try to think of how the place will actually "live" and function, how it will add to what exists, and how people will actually use the space (even if they will actually use it).  Often parks or plazas look nice in renderings for instance, but in so many instances don't actually really get that much use and can even be almost as much a "discouragement" to creating a lively pedestrian street as a parking lot depending on how they are designed, their scale, etc.

Also I try to NEVER let myself get enamored with a flashy, super neat, modern design rendering of a building without FIRST looking at how it meets the sidewalk.  The most important part is that first level, everything above that is mere puffery. Love that "puffery" when its sitting atop a pedestrian friendly pedestal, could care less if its sitting above something that nobody will want to walk past. Whether or not a building looks nice in a photo, or rendering at a distance isn't my main concern and doesn't trump whether or not that building will actually be one thats good for building pedestrian traffic and street life and thus be good for urban retail/business and the general desirability and vibrancy of your cities core.  I know architects and the general public looking at pictures will disagree, but thats because they have other concerns (making an impression and getting to do "fancy" creative, designs) or aren't concerned with or educated about pedestrian friendly, how does a good urban area actually work, ideas at all.

Now not every block in a downtown needs to have pedestrian friendly structures, parks, etc. along it, but for those streets we do want to have that on...  

I really do not like the one with the sports complex on the roof.  It destroys any potential pedestrian corridor along that area of Boston Ave and Cincinnati, and the plaza area to the south looks like another one of those types of areas that would essentially be empty most of the time.  Looks like something out of the 80's that would end up a dusty, windswept plaza with empty windows, especially in that location with nothing around it and everyone from the school having to walk past a block of boring cement wall.  Do that once or twice with very few people there and you wouldn't try it again. There is already a park area over there by the church.  How often have you seen people enjoying it or walking past? Handful of people a year perhaps.  

Also the one done by Miles and Associates seems more fitting for 2 different scenarios.  A suburban context (looks like a suburban style office complex like you might see in Dallas sprawltopia), or a high density urban area with very little green space such that the spaces around it would be very much appreciated (not what we have in our downtown).   Plus again, I don't see it being a place that would engender much pedestrian traffic and the exterior spaces seem a little disjointed and awkward.  I am actually really curious as to what their thought processes were?

[Townsend]

The lots to the east of TCC and South of the new physical therapy building...major dirt work to just be surface lots again.

Did I miss what these plots will be when they grow up?

[DowntownDan]

Those renderings are like downtown Tulsa fan fiction, lol.  I pretty much believe that south downtown is hopeless so long as TCC and the churches demand parking lots.  There is so much more potential in Brady, Blue Dome, Greenwood, East Village, Central Business District, and BOK/Civil Plaza and there is actually things going on and lots of room for infill and redevelopment.  Southern downtown will probably be what it is for the foreseeable future.

There is also some dirt work going on in the lot near the new physical therapy building next to the main buildings.  They tore down a building there last year.  I'm guessing it'll be another fancy freshly paved parking lot.  That's just how it is and is gonna continue to be unfortunately.  There's an old building just next to it.  I give it a year before it's bought, demolished, and paved over as well.

[carltonplace]

There are more surface parking lots between 9th Street and 15th Street than there are buildings (much less occupied buildings) to park and walk into.

In the last year 5 buildings have been demolished in this area in favor of additional parking. One building was demolished for an AEP/PSO substation expansion.

[bacjz00]

All of a sudden, I'm really depressed about this part of downtown.   It doesn't seem like Tulsa will be able to have its cake and eat it too anytime soon. 

[Conan71]

All of a sudden, I'm really depressed about this part of downtown.   It doesn't seem like Tulsa will be able to have its cake and eat it too anytime soon. 

Cake is overrated.  Pie is so much better!

[TheArtist]

Those renderings are like downtown Tulsa fan fiction, lol.  I pretty much believe that south downtown is hopeless so long as TCC and the churches demand parking lots.  There is so much more potential in Brady, Blue Dome, Greenwood, East Village, Central Business District, and BOK/Civil Plaza and there is actually things going on and lots of room for infill and redevelopment.  Southern downtown will probably be what it is for the foreseeable future.

There is also some dirt work going on in the lot near the new physical therapy building next to the main buildings.  They tore down a building there last year.  I'm guessing it'll be another fancy freshly paved parking lot.  That's just how it is and is gonna continue to be unfortunately.  There's an old building just next to it.  I give it a year before it's bought, demolished, and paved over as well.

I think development along Boston Avenue could have a chance at being extended from TCC and the area around the coffee shop, into downtown.  Even the church parking lot along there does not get many, if any, cars in it so they might be able to be persuaded to part with a section of that property fronting Boston Ave.  A narrow strip right up to the sidewalk having lots of small shop areas and perhaps living above would be great. And if TCC or some investor were to do something like the more pedestrian friendly development on their NW parking lot area, then that would go a huge way to connecting the campus area to the core.

[DTowner]

I think development along Boston Avenue could have a chance at being extended from TCC and the area around the coffee shop, into downtown.  Even the church parking lot along there does not get many, if any, cars in it so they might be able to be persuaded to part with a section of that property fronting Boston Ave.  A narrow strip right up to the sidewalk having lots of small shop areas and perhaps living above would be great. And if TCC or some investor were to do something like the more pedestrian friendly development on their NW parking lot area, then that would go a huge way to connecting the campus area to the core.

I agree the area along Boston north of TCC has the most hope of building up long before the surface lots south of 10th Street.  Nonetheless, I doubt the economics will support that kind of ground up development for at least the next 3-5 years.  We are steadily eliminating the supply of empty and underutilized buildings downtown (not as fast as I would like, but probably as fast as the market can absorb with current growth rates).  I think the East Village offers a lot more opportunity for new construction and building a predominately residential neighborhood with row houses and low rise apartment buildings with a few commercial developments sprinkled in and would be a much more important addition to downtown.

[TheArtist]

I agree the area along Boston north of TCC has the most hope of building up long before the surface lots south of 10th Street.  Nonetheless, I doubt the economics will support that kind of ground up development for at least the next 3-5 years.  We are steadily eliminating the supply of empty and underutilized buildings downtown (not as fast as I would like, but probably as fast as the market can absorb with current growth rates).  I think the East Village offers a lot more opportunity for new construction and building a predominately residential neighborhood with row houses and low rise apartment buildings with a few commercial developments sprinkled in and would be a much more important addition to downtown.

Absolutely.

Btw was just at the Pearl District meeting (working to open another business in the area) and a guy who is with the architect team  proposing the BAM multi-sport idea was there drumming up support.  I of course had to say my thing about how it was not pedestrian friendly with that long wall on Boston Ave.  He said their actual idea was to have retail all along there but that they did not have the time to put that in the rendering.  So, there is that to be fair.

And to segue slightly, speaking of the Pearl District.  Had an awning guy go out to the property to get started on some quotes for some awnings (want them to help make the area more pedestrian friendly, provide some shade for the front windows, and do double duty as signage as well) and discovered to my horror this....

 Apparently it's illegal to have awnings out over the sidewalk!  That's one of the main points of awnings is that they help protect people walking on the sidewalk from sun and rain.  Look at old photos of Tulsa when people were walking down the sidewalks back in the day and there were awnings everywhere on just about every building.  Heck cities everywhere for thousands of years have had awnings all along their streets cause it's a positive thing for businesses and pedestrians, but apparently its illegal in Tulsa and I will likely have to "pay" (heard about $1,300) and fill out paperwork, etc. to "try" to get an exception.  How absurd is that?  Before this I was of the mind of suggesting that the city should offer incentives of some sort to encourage more businesses, especially in these types of areas, to put up awnings.  Had no idea that they were not permitted and if you did want them you had to jump through hoops for several months and pay extra.

Oh, and apparently there are still minimum parking requirements in the area?  Really?  You still almost have to tear out something around you in order to put in more parking lots.  We may not even be able to make this project happen.  Will be going to the city tomorrow to find out what the deal is.  No wonder so many buildings are still sitting there empty.  They want to turn it into some suburban style area and it's not designed for that now and I would rather do my part to help it become more pedestrian friendly, but even then you still have no idea what the neighboring properties may do because if they do the opposite, they will hurt your business. You can put your heart into something and then just hope and cross your fingers that the next guy won't destroy everything you have worked so hard for.

Egads.