City Council - Driller Vote on July 10

[Kenosha]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20080713_11_A4_spancl177563

"They're asking for some things we can't get without an active contract," he said.

The devil had warned you of Crowley.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20080713_11_A1_spancl864930
"The last thing we want is seedy stuff around the stadium." Oh, the irony.

And this!
"Fred Dorwart, Tulsa attorney. He represented the interest of the Bank of Oklahoma in a lawsuit and settlement over a $7.1 million defaulted loan connected to the defunct Great Plains Airline.
Margaret Kobos, an attorney who joined Dorwart's firm this year. Prior to that she was an attorney with the Bank of Oklahoma."

FB, you are onto something. But leave the personal attacks out of it.

Does anyone know who the T Town Clowns were?

The devil thinks this does soil over the Tulsa Race Riot.....

"The city of Tulsa, Oklahoma is haunted by untreated wounds suffered
in a past trauma – the 1921 Tulsa race riot, war and massacre of African
American men, women and children in the Greenwood business and
residential community. The Tulsa Reparations Coalition is appealing
to individuals and organizations that believe in human rights and know
that an injustice to one is an injustice to all. We are inviting you to do
your part in securing justice for the victims and living survivors of the
1921 Tulsa devastation."
Tulsa Reparations Coalition

As much as the devil advocates this ballpark, the city better be damn careful who they screw and who they alienate in their elitist process.

I don't know what the real story is here, but it is usually not a one sided thing.  Dr. Crowley, for example, is not responsible for negotiating TDA  contracts, and he is far too busy to spend a great deal of time on any one private project

Now...I don't know what the hold up is, or what Novus Homes' financial situation is, but if there is legitimate foot dragging going on with the city, I suspect it will be resolved Monday morning.

Anyway, I know Wil Wilkins, and he is the good kind of developer...he has built in places others wouldn't (i.e. Brady Heights), and he wants to do it right.  I have no reason to believe that this would not be a good project, then again, I don't know what his financial backing looks like, which is likely what make or breaks a project like this.
,

[Gaspar]

Wow!  Gone 3 days and look where this thread has gone.  

A zoo of a city counsel meeting.  A pinch of cost overruns on previous projects.  A sprinkling of conspiracy theory. Boil it all up, and you still get a $60 million dollar minor league stadium (we all know that means $80 to $100 million FB).

So, if we are going to get such a wonderful stadium, lets make sure it looks like an $80 to $100 million dollar multi-use structure that can be expanded to provide a home for a major league team in the future.  I mean, that's the cost of a major league stadium, so lets build one.  Is that bad logic?

[TulsaSooner]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar


So, if we are going to get such a wonderful stadium, lets make sure it looks like an $80 to $100 million dollar multi-use structure that can be expanded to provide a home for a major league team in the future.  I mean, that's the cost of a major league stadium, so lets build one.  Is that bad logic?

You better check again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_stadiums

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaSooner

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar


So, if we are going to get such a wonderful stadium, lets make sure it looks like an $80 to $100 million dollar multi-use structure that can be expanded to provide a home for a major league team in the future.  I mean, that's the cost of a major league stadium, so lets build one.  Is that bad logic?

You better check again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_stadiums

Good link.  I suppose it would be a bit pricey to go for Major League at this point.  I was just looking at minor league stadiums.  They seem to be in the $20 to $30 range.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stadiums#Minor_leagues



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stadiums#Minor_leagues

[sgrizzle]

Now if you can capture the 700 speakers who came to discuss sausages as well, you would have the whole meeting.

[TheArtist]

Part of that 60mill tag is the cost of the properties around the ballpark and supposedly the plaza and fountain, crosswalks, etc. Not clear if that cost also includes any development other than the ballpark and the museum. Perhaps the stuff right next to the ballpark? I am still not sure whats going on.

[Gaspar]

Lets just call it $100 million, then when it comes in at $80 million we'll feel like it was a bargain!

[chlfan]

Does this price tag also include the Mickey Mantle museum? If so, comparing it to the cost of other minor league parks isn't gonna mesh. If not... it better be a pretty one

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

Lets just call it $100 million, then when it comes in at $80 million we'll feel like it was a bargain!

The question is still, what is "it"?

The Ballpark? The museum? The Plaza and fountain? The properties? Some development on the properties?...

The Ballpark itself may only be around 30 mill. Though if for some extra we get something wonderful, that would be fine with me.






ONE OTHER THING! is it just me or when anyone else types a post on here and one of those ads above with the "moving" stuff on it is up, does what your typing go really slow and cause you to mess up! Its friggin irritating.![!]Its hard to even fix your mistakes because it takes a while for your cursor to reappear when you move it. Especially that glowing "freedom fellowship crap and that lawnmower"!

[Renaissance]

One nice thing about having a public trust set up is that all the details of the plan will be publicly available as they come online.

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

ONE OTHER THING! is it just me or when anyone else types a post on here and one of those ads above with the "moving" stuff on it is up, does what your typing go really slow and cause you to mess up! Its friggin irritating.![!]Its hard to even fix your mistakes because it takes a while for your cursor to reappear when you move it. Especially that glowing "freedom fellowship crap and that lawnmower"!

No, I don't have any issues with it.

[carltonplace]

What a bunch of whiners. In my estimation the only people that have a right to whine about this ball park are those that own property inside the IDL and don't want to see their property values increase.


None of the rest of you are paying for this. Stop crying.

Most of the people that are complaining are those that are sitting on derelict property doing nothing and hoping that someday that crappy rundown warehouse will make them rich. I have to agree with EN: "If you own property downtown...do something with it".

Is this good for downtown? Yes
Will it create infill and developement in the CBD? Yes
Will the ballpark bring more people? Yes
Can this revitalize but not recreate the Greenwood area? Yep, its for everyone. Its reconciliation.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

What a bunch of whiners. In my estimation the only people that have a right to whine about this ball park are those that own property inside the IDL and don't want to see their property values increase.


None of the rest of you are paying for this. Stop crying.

Most of the people that are complaining are those that are sitting on derelict property doing nothing and hoping that someday that crappy rundown warehouse will make them rich. I have to agree with EN: "If you own property downtown...do something with it".

Is this good for downtown? Yes
Will it create infill and developement in the CBD? Yes
Will the ballpark bring more people? Yes
Can this revitalize but not recreate the Greenwood area? Yep, its for everyone. Its reconciliation.

You are dead wrong. This assessment will be collected on city and county owned buildings. Who pays for that increase? City and County taxpayers. So taxes are either raised to cover the increases or we get another cut in the services we're provided to offset these new costs. To spin this as reconciliation is completely reprehensible. It is morally and intellectually bankrupt.

[PonderInc]

Lately I've been wondering why everyone on this forum seems to be on the rag.  Exciting, cool things happen...great opportunities for Tulsa arise... and then the threads turn negative and ugly. (It's depressing, and makes me not want to read the forum.)

I have to remind myself that it's not most people...just a handful of individuals who wear poo-tinted glasses and think everything they see is manure.  

Example:
"Congratulations!  You've just won the lottery!"

Person wearing poo-colored glasses: "Stop trying to dump this sh_t on us, you evil rich b_stard!"

I believe in free speech and the power of dialogue.  But there are some folks who never seem to contribute/offer anything constructive.  Pi$$ing and moaning all the time, every day, about everything is not diaglogue.  It's like listening to a toddler throw a tantrum at the grocery store.  Just makes you want to check out faster!

Ceaseless negativity doesn't change anyone's mind.  It doesn't even challenge controversial issues... It just annoys and offends people who would otherwise participate.  People who truly care about Tulsa and want to get involved, learn, discuss, question, etc...in a civil forum.  And it makes the regular posters (thick skinned folks, one and all) basically ignore anything you say.

(But I do think that Friendly Bear offers an interesting poetic slant.  Imagine if Dr. Seuss and Donald Rumsfeld had a love child on acid....)

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

Lately I've been wondering why everyone on this forum seems to be on the rag.  Exciting, cool things happen...great opportunities for Tulsa arise... and then the threads turn negative and ugly. (It's depressing, and makes me not want to read the forum.)

I have to remind myself that it's not most people...just a handful of individuals who wear poo-tinted glasses and think everything they see is manure.  

Example:
"Congratulations!  You've just won the lottery!"

Person wearing poo-colored glasses: "Stop trying to dump this sh_t on us, you evil rich b_stard!"

I believe in free speech and the power of dialogue.  But there are some folks who never seem to contribute/offer anything constructive.  Pi$$ing and moaning all the time, every day, about everything is not diaglogue.  It's like listening to a toddler throw a tantrum at the grocery store.  Just makes you want to check out faster!

Ceaseless negativity doesn't change anyone's mind.  It doesn't even challenge controversial issues... It just annoys and offends people who would otherwise participate.  People who truly care about Tulsa and want to get involved, learn, discuss, question, etc...in a civil forum.  And it makes the regular posters (thick skinned folks, one and all) basically ignore anything you say.

(But I do think that Friendly Bear offers an interesting poetic slant.  Imagine if Dr. Seuss and Donald Rumsfeld had a love child on acid....)

Daddy?