Is Tulsa just a poor mans Fort Worth?

[deinstein]

When I was there this weekend I could not help but think this repeatedly.

[azbadpuppy]

quote:Originally posted by deinstein

When I was there this weekend I could not help but think this repeatedly.

No, that's Oklahoma City.

[RecycleMichael]

I love Ft Worth. They have a very green city government and some of my favorite paintings are in the Kimball Art Museum.

[YoungTulsan]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I love Ft Worth. They have a very green city government and some of my favorite paintings are in the Kimball Art Museum.

Tulsa has a green city government.  Haven't you heard about the mold at old city hall?

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Tulsa has a green city government.  Haven't you heard about the mold at old city hall?

Which City Hall?

Still not sure how we saved money by purchasing a sky scrapper and holding on to the rest of the property.  I'm buying a lake house to see how that works.

[waterboy]

RM, its "Foat Wuth, I luv yew!" That's their bumper stickers.

Cannon, I thought we were selling the old city hall buildings for development. Did I miss something?

[bigdtottown]

Ft. Worth pushes it's image as a "cowtown" for the tourists but it has, hands down, some of the best museums around in the Kimball and Amon Carter.  They are not just good regionally, they are world class.  Their new Modern Art Museum is supposed to be awesome as well.  Being a Dallas resident and fan since '85 this has been a little hard to take.  In this context, I see the comparisons with Tulsa having The Philbrook and The Gilcrease.  Of course isn't there an OKC or Norman museum being built (maybe finished?) to house that massive collection of modern art no one really knew about when some oil guy passed away a couple of years ago?  Still, I used to compare Tulsa to Dallas and OKC to Ft. Worth but it's really not that simple anymore...it's fun though.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


Cannon, I thought we were selling the old city hall buildings for development. Did I miss something?

Yes, we were. Or are.  Whatever.  We have 2 city halls and multiple other properties and I have not heard plans to unload any of them.  We are, in fact, purchasing more property to manage for the Driller's stadium.

Sorry.  Just annoying me because I foretold the long-term holding of properties in spite of consolidation.  Long-term being > one year and it looks very much like that will happen as no interest has even been indicated or discussed.

/thread hijack

[waterboy]

Maybe we could buy them cheap at a foreclosure auction.

[TheArtist]

We so need a modern art museum. "Need" as in I would like one and I know a lot of others would to lol. How would you go about getting one? Hit up the big money folk. Start one small?

If the city had some old warehouse, I would shift gears and take on the effort of turning it into a modern art museum. Would be a worthy way to spend the next 20 or so years of my time in my book. Start small and funky, have local artists and the community donate, get donors with money to help make improvements and purchase art...

[MichaelBates]

quote:Originally posted by bigdtottown

Ft. Worth pushes it's image as a "cowtown" for the tourists but it has, hands down, some of the best museums around in the Kimball and Amon Carter.  They are not just good regionally, they are world class.  

There's your difference between Ft. Worth and OKC on the one hand and Tulsa on the other. The former two cities aren't ashamed to be called cowtowns, and they promote that aspect of their histories in their tourism marketing, while still embracing their high-culture offerings.

Tulsa has plenty of claim to Western heritage, but we seem embarrassed about it, preferring just to promote the highbrow stuff, even though it's cowboys and Indians and oilmen and Route 66 (and even tornadoes and televangelists) that kindle the imaginations of potential visitors, particularly those from overseas.

Someone who lives within a short train ride of the Louvre isn't going to hop a plane to see Renaissance paintings and enjoy upscale shopping, but they might book a flight to see a rodeo or a powwow, while appreciating having a civilized base from which to explore the Wild West.

[dbacks fan]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

RM, its "Foat Wuth, I luv yew!" That's their bumper stickers.

The first time I saw that saying was on a billboard near Arlington back in the early 80's. I can't believe that they are still using it. Not really the image I would want for my town if I lived there, but then again any episode of COPS from Ft. Worth validates the bumper sticker.

[Hometown]

I was the art and architecture critic for three years at the Ft. Worth Star Telegram back in the 80s.  I grew to understand and love Ft. Worth and I did find many similarities to Tulsa.  

Ft. Worth has lived in Dallas' shadow for many years now so it struggles with self esteem problems.  Sound familiar?  And for many years development passed Ft. Worth by and that resulted in there being a treasure trove of old buildings in Ft. Worth.  

Then the Basses inherited Sid Richardson's fortune and became super rich and set about leaving their mark on the city.  There were also other significant money families like the Ft. Worth branch of the Tandys.

I have often lamented that Tulsa's moneyed families have not been as successful in remaking our town.  Here, they have seemed to hold us back rather than propel us forward.

Another key difference between Tulsa and Ft. Worth is that Ft. Worth is westward looking and her character reflects that West Texas mindset best typified by Larry McMurtry's writings.  We, at least used to, look eastward.

Tulsa and Ft. Worth don't have the strong middle class that Dallas does.  And Ft. Worth and Tulsa certainly haven't been exploited as thoroughly as Dallas has.  Like Tulsa, Ft. Worth is more affordable and at least used to offer more value in the real estate department.

Tulsa's Gilcrease museum's collection is world class and compares very well to the Carter and the Sid Richardson collection.

The Modern Museum in Ft. Worth is largely the result of the dedication of one member of one very rich family.  The same is true of the Kimbell and the Carter.  It doesn't take a whole lot of focused millionaires and billionaires to make a difference.  My frustration with Tulsa's upper crust on the other hand has led me to ask, can we trade our rich folks with Ft. Worth?

[deinstein]

Am I correct in assuming the comparison you all made to OKC was to degrade Ft. Worth?

I found the city to be extremely underrated and I had a great time venturing through the city this past weekend.

The downtown area is what Tulsa should strive to be. Walkable, nice shops along the curb and blends in with the high rises.

A college that blends in with the area (TCU) and seems to have had a positive impact on the area around it rather than a negative impact like TU.

Comparing it to OKC? I think you're digging deep. There is nothing in Tulsa nor OKC that is having the positive economic boom I saw in their downtown area heading towards the University.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

We so need a modern art museum. "Need" as in I would like one and I know a lot of others would to lol. How would you go about getting one? Hit up the big money folk. Start one small?

If the city had some old warehouse, I would shift gears and take on the effort of turning it into a modern art museum. Would be a worthy way to spend the next 20 or so years of my time in my book. Start small and funky, have local artists and the community donate, get donors with money to help make improvements and purchase art...

I hear some mid-century contemporary buildings may be available downtown. Check with the owners of the old city hall.[]