Sem Group meltdown

[inteller]

with great corporate friends like this, TUlsa doesn't need any enemies.

I see a bunch of turds wanted to play Enron Lite with their money.

Keep in mind that MANY of the turds running Semgroup are the same thugs that ran williams into the ground earlier this decade.

we need some corporate ethic cleansing around here.  Tulsa is just going to be known as a haven for shady business tactics.

lets see:

CFS
WIlliams/Wiltel debacle
ORU (if you count the way RR spent money)
Mayor Sue me and I'll Pay You
and now SemGroup.

[Conan71]

You heard what's going on at Samson, didn't you?

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

You heard what's going on at Samson, didn't you?

No, do tell...

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

with great corporate friends like this, TUlsa doesn't need any enemies.

I see a bunch of turds wanted to play Enron Lite with their money.

Keep in mind that MANY of the turds running Semgroup are the same thugs that ran williams into the ground earlier this decade.

we need some corporate ethic cleansing around here.  Tulsa is just going to be known as a haven for shady business tactics.

lets see:

CFS
WIlliams/Wiltel debacle
ORU (if you count the way RR spent money)
Mayor Sue me and I'll Pay You
and now SemGroup.

Devil's bud has to agree with everything but add Ethic cleansing around THE COUNTRY! Mayor Kat stands pat. At this time, we need her type of leadership. She has to find the resouces left behind we depended on from Kovisto.

Painful loss.

It ain't ova til the fat lady sez Dnova.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

You heard what's going on at Samson, didn't you?

Tell me they were fellow gamblers?

They're selling out?

You have a %10 chance of being correct whatever rumor you relay to us.

[bokworker]

quote:Originally posted by HazMatCFO

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Cannon, am I reading correctly?  $1.3 billion???

Sheesh, the Duke brothers were only on the hook for $384 million [}:)]

Devaluation of the dollar since the mid 80s, about the same amount of money.

In regards to BOK, not good timing with IndyMac going belly up last week. I don't know if $ 130,000,000 could bankrupt BOK, but it may cause a run on the bank. Merger with larger bank on the horizon?

This is not good and I'm not usually a sky is falling person.

Please... BOk has announced EARNINGS of about $100 million in the first six months of 2008. Forgive me for being sensitive to comments such as this but we are talking about losing some measure of annual earnings... not even touching our capital. These comments are irresponsible and dangerous....

Is it a bad deal?Yes. Is BOk on the hook? Yes. But to suggest that it will be the downfall of BOk is just flat wrong...

[TUalum0982]

so in Lehman's terms...they basically gambled away their loans by betting that oil prices would go down, when in reality, they went up...way up and now they are out billions of dollars??

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by HazMatCFO

Devaluation of the dollar since the mid 80s, about the same amount of money.

1) To compare currencies we need a staple, clearly the Euro was not around. The longest standing currency is the British Pound, so lets use that:
1980-10-01  2.4165 Pounds to 1 USD
1985-12-01  1.4447
1988-12-01  1.8258

CURRENT:    1.9816
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/EXUSUK.txt

I'd have to say we are within the 1980's range you speak of.  The strongest dollar was near $1, the weakest was in the 1970's at 2.62 pounds/dollar.  

People usually fail to realize how things really look in context.  In the moment it always looks bad, but in historical context the dollar is fine.  It is simply well off it's historic highs.

quote:
In regards to BOK, not good timing with IndyMac going belly up last week. I don't know if $ 130,000,000 could bankrupt BOK, but it may cause a run on the bank. Merger with larger bank on the horizon?

2) First, BOKF is a secured debt holder.  It is possible that they are under secured, but since they were an initial investor and the assets are in oil tanks and pipelines - I doubt it.  Those assets are likely to have appreciated if anything.

Second, even IF BOKF had to take a $130,000,000 loss - that would represent about one quarter of operating income.  The company holds 21,000,000,000 in assets.  The loss would be significant (one quarter) but by no means a death blow.

And finally, it would take at least $3.5 Billion to buy out BOk.  Not too many companies have that kind of liquidity at the moment.  Add to that BOk has declared and proven a desire to grow instead of being absorbed.   It seems unlikely on the face and even more so as a result of this transaction (you will note the stock price is not too alarmed).

Not saying it can't happen.  Just that it doesn't seem as much of an issue as you seem to think.  not picking on you, just trying to limit the doom and gloom.
- - -



And finally, the oil industry breeds high risk companies.  Tulsa has seen them come and go over the last century.  WE have profited from most.  If SemGroup goes away, we are still better off for having them over the last 8 years than if they never existed.  

I don't think this is unique to Tulsa.  There is a reason it is called a Boom or Bust industry.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

You heard what's going on at Samson, didn't you?

Tell me they were fellow gamblers?

They're selling out?

You have a %10 chance of being correct whatever rumor you relay to us.

they have been in the paper a lot lately donating money left and right...sunday's paper said they donated to OSU..  they were one of the ballpark donors.  I guess guilt by association?  are you going to tell us they are getting the naming rights?

[tulsacyclist]

cannon_fodder, I appreciate all of the research/info you're sharing here. It's helping me make a little more sense of it all.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by tulsacyclist

cannon_fodder, I appreciate all of the research/info you're sharing here. It's helping me make a little more sense of it all.

well I hope it all brings you solace because Kaiser's house of cards is getting pretty wobbly.  If the qui tam suit is successful in getting our 7.1 mil back I know a loan officer or two over there that will be going to jail.

the most ridiculous thing is BoK will probably sell williams various semgroup assets for a song.  which would be highly ironic because if I remember correctly semgroup bought some williams assets when they were near bankruptcy.

[JoeMommaBlake]

Samson Stadium...

Samson Park....

Samson Coliseum....

Samson Park at Greenwood Gardens...

or I could just pony up for the naming rights....

Joe Momma's Park.

I like it. Who do I make the check out to?

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by JoeMommaBlake

Samson Stadium...

Samson Park....

Samson Coliseum....

Samson Park at Greenwood Gardens...

or I could just pony up for the naming rights....

Joe Momma's Park.

I like it. Who do I make the check out to?

hahaha...Samson Coliseum has a nice ring to it.  Didn't the biblical Samson bring down a coliseum?  That would be fitting irony for Tulsa.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by tulsacyclist

cannon_fodder, I appreciate all of the research/info you're sharing here. It's helping me make a little more sense of it all.

well I hope it all brings you solace because Kaiser's house of cards is getting pretty wobbly.  If the qui tam suit is successful in getting our 7.1 mil back I know a loan officer or two over there that will be going to jail.

the most ridiculous thing is BoK will probably sell williams various semgroup assets for a song.  which would be highly ironic because if I remember correctly semgroup bought some williams assets when they were near bankruptcy.

Who's filing a qui tam?

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by tulsacyclist

cannon_fodder, I appreciate all of the research/info you're sharing here. It's helping me make a little more sense of it all.

well I hope it all brings you solace because Kaiser's house of cards is getting pretty wobbly.  If the qui tam suit is successful in getting our 7.1 mil back I know a loan officer or two over there that will be going to jail.

the most ridiculous thing is BoK will probably sell williams various semgroup assets for a song.  which would be highly ironic because if I remember correctly semgroup bought some williams assets when they were near bankruptcy.

Who's filing a qui tam?

Sutton, Davis & Staggs Law Office 91st/Yale