Homeless Hi-Rise at Admiral and Yale

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

TV news reporter visited the YMCA downtown.  Rooms they showed were 10 feet by 9 feet or 90 square feet.  Tile floor, a door, single bed, a chair and a small desk.  Said the new proposed units will be 3 times as large 240 square feet and have a shower & toilet, kitchen area.  Based on the size stated, one would gather these are at the best efficiency rooms and not one bed room apartments.

Efficiency apartments of that nature are currently available downtown and in areas surrounding downtown in many areas from around $250-$300 per month with most bills paid. Many have a boiler with steam heat, and a single window AC unit.  Cheap and easy cost effective housing.  May not be a Ritz Carlton resort, but it provides shelter and most I have seen appear to be well kept. Many have strict rules regarding security of doors, noise during night hours, and guests, but so do most hotel/motels today.    

Thats just what I thought. I figured if they were to turn the old Y into a "housing first" type facility it would basically have to be gutted. It would take about 3 rooms to make one apartment. Adding a kitchen and bath into each of those apartments would also require major renovations and expense to put throughout the building. Even if it were less expensive to buy that property, gut the building, and then redo it... you would still need places to put the people that are staying there while you are doing all of that. They can't stay in a gutted building.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by Gold


Beyond that, the Y needs to go.  If we keep people living there, we subject them to the risk of a terrible fire.  Just a thought that seems to get lost in this discussion.

Install sprinklers, problem solved.

Got the cash for that?

It's really expensive.  Several buildings downtown have been hit with this problem.

It's much cheaper than a new building.

Is it?  Look at the fortune it's taking to totally re-do the Mayo.  I'm not sure what market there is for potential buyers to purchase a former flop house with flop house facilities.  Without the homeless, the building serves no economic function.  The land the building is on is probably worth more than the building itself.

I'm pretty sure it's actually cheaper to build a new building out on Yale than to renovate and add sprinklers so people can stay there (this isn't the first time this issue has popped up in Tulsa).  But it would be interesting to see the numbers.

[RecycleMichael]

I think the YMCA could be a groovy hotel if you spent enough money.

It has the best pool in Tulsa.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I think the YMCA could be a groovy hotel if you spent enough money.

It has the best pool in Tulsa.

That would kinda put a damper on the old city hall hotel idea aye...

Or is that still an idea.?

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I think the YMCA could be a groovy hotel if you spent enough money.

It has the best pool in Tulsa.

That would kinda put a damper on the old city hall hotel idea aye...

Or is that still an idea.?

It's the reason Building Tulsa Building Lives is chasing these folks out of the Y and forcing this development on White City. As a matter of fact, considering the Admiral & Yale property is  centrally located in relation to the fairgrounds, downtown, and the airport and in close proximity to the major interstate in a commercial corridor that services all three; it seems a Hotel at the Admiral and Yale location would be a much better fit than the use currently proposed. It would bring some much needed economic development to a struggling north Tulsa Commercial corridor instead of a residential use that would not result in the same economic impact of dollars turning over in this commercial corridor.

[waterboy]

You keep calling this White City which from my memory starts around 4th street to 11th street. It is the only decent neighborhood in four directions, is bounded on the south by a gnarly looking prostitute and car lot laden thoroughfare which is more damaging to their values. It is hardly at risk for any negative consequences from this building's residents.

You'd rather see a motel/hotel? Highway hotels rarely do much to improve the neighborhoods they sit in unless its like a suburban Doubletree. Most of them attract truckers looking for strip joints nearby, groups of kids looking for someplace to party and druggies bunking up for a couple days. Go over by I-44 and Riverside and check out what you're asking for. Heck, just go up the street on Admiral and Memorial and see what wonderful things the motels have done for that area.

Why carry the battleflag for this skirmish?

[Rico]

So.... what your saying is that in place of this Hobo Heaven..... we could have our very own ......!

Well that is something to think about..[}:)]

[Flamingo]

I've read that there are more shelters in other neighborhoods around town.  Does anyone know where they are or how to find out?  I think it would be interesting to drive by and have a look and to see what part of town they're located in.  A neighborhood called Forest Orchard, I believe it's called, has one and reports that they're having no problems at all.  Thanks.

[waterboy]

The one I'm thinking of is hard to place. I actually found it looking for something else. I believe it is south of the BA expressway and east of harvard around 25th?

It looks like several residential fenced in ranch style homes sitting far back from the street. Anyone know of this one?

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

Now, I will say that if I ever hit the Powerball, I will see that the Beirut building, the Abundant Life building, and the apartments northwest of the Riverside and Denver intersection all come down.

Interesting thought. What would you put up?  Something besides a surface parking lot I hope.

[AMP]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

You keep calling this White City which from my memory starts around 4th street to 11th street. It is the only decent neighborhood in four directions, is bounded on the south by a gnarly looking prostitute and car lot laden thoroughfare which is more damaging to their values. It is hardly at risk for any negative consequences from this building's residents.

You'd rather see a motel/hotel? Highway hotels rarely do much to improve the neighborhoods they sit in unless its like a suburban Doubletree. Most of them attract truckers looking for strip joints nearby, groups of kids looking for someplace to party and druggies bunking up for a couple days. Go over by I-44 and Riverside and check out what you're asking for. Heck, just go up the street on Admiral and Memorial and see what wonderful things the motels have done for that area.

Why carry the battleflag for this skirmish?

In a few cities I travel to there are typically low end and high end hotel/motels near the same area.  The Holiday Inn runs $80 per night, while the mom and pop operated motel 1/2 mile away runs $45 per night.  At Admiral and I-244 one finds the same mix of pricing and quality.  

Depending on the quality, security and style one is seeking and their budget steers folks to choose one over the other. Most highway travelers don't stay long enough to survey the neighborhood, bath, bed, back of their eyelids, and the continental breakfast is most that the typically traveler ever sees.

A Holiday Inn at the eixt of I-244 on Yale lends itself to a great fit for that piece of realestate.  Would also be a good location for a 24 hour restaurant such as an I-Hop, Pancake Place or Waffle House as the only competition in that area is the Denny's at I-244 and Sheridan.  By charging $80+ a night for a room, the quality of the customer base is kept under control.

The 24 hour restaurant and motel/hotel franchise sales rep missed the boat on that location.  One would think they were called on the carpet and quizzed why they had not proposed this land to prospective investors when the news of this 70 unit facility hit the media.  

Come to think of it, don't recall ever seeing a For Sale sign posted on that lot?

Home Ownership

Home ownership should be the number one priority for those intending to live for more than a few years in an area.  In addition the mortgage companies earn their profits from providing mortgages and collecting monthly payments.  Rent only results in a receipt and no equity.  

If one earned only minimum wage today $6.55 per hour and worked 2080 hours per year, 40 hour work week, their total earnings would be around $1,340 per month.

Based on the minimum 30% of income for the monthly rental for these units one would think the majority of those earning upwards of $1,340 per month could afford to buy a house versus renting a room as they will be paying $340 per month. Actually if they claim and qualify for earned income tax credit, if they qualify for the maximum, they may be paying around $370 per month.  

Even at the minimum wage $340 payment that should make the mortgage payment on most homes north of Admiral Boulevard in Tulsa.  If they are married and both work that should increase to $680 per month payment based on the 30% rule of the housing deal. One should be qualified to purchase the majority of homes available north of 11th street for $680 per month payment today with the low property values, glut of vacant homes and low interest rates available.

WHAT HAPPEND TO SWEAT EQUITY?

http://www.homevestors.com/inthenews/news.php?id=80

Actually asumptions of existing home loans should be another avenue to explore to purchase older homes in distressed areas.  UG the Ugly House Buyer offerd $10,000 cash for a 3 bedroom house near Sheridan and Pine last week.  He provided six contracts that showed he had purchased those six homes, all of which were 2 bedrooms or 3 bedrooms, in the surrounding area for $10,000 and less.    Payment on that unit would be around $100 per month.      

Keep in mind minimum wage will increase again to $7.25 in July of 2009.  Or $1,256 per month average.  That is a minimum monthly payment of $376 based on the 30% rule.

One may be way better off to check the multi-lists prior to signing a deal on a room.  Or hang out around the Ug Buys Ugly Houses location on 15th street, and follow their rep to a few great home deals.  

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by AMP


A Holiday Inn at the eixt of I-244 on Yale lends itself to a great fit for that piece of realestate.  Would also be a good location for a 24 hour restaurant such as an I-Hop, Pancake Place or Waffle House as the only competition in that area is the Denny's at I-244 and Sheridan.  By charging $80+ a night for a room, the quality of the customer base is kept under control.

The 24 hour restaurant and motel/hotel franchise sales rep missed the boat on that location.  One would think they were called on the carpet and quizzed why they had not proposed this land to prospective investors when the news of this 70 unit facility hit the media.  

I forgot to mention the proximity to TU. I bet plenty of visitors like prospective students, families of students and sports fans would take advantage of a mid ranged facility so close to the campus. Lots of events happening throughout the year on the TU campus, athletic events, graduations, etc.. If I had the money to build a hotel there, I would. I bet it would be really succesful. Sames goes for a 24 hour restaurant there.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Flamingo

I've read that there are more shelters in other neighborhoods around town.  Does anyone know where they are or how to find out?  I think it would be interesting to drive by and have a look and to see what part of town they're located in.  A neighborhood called Forest Orchard, I believe it's called, has one and reports that they're having no problems at all.  Thanks.

Forest Orchard is west of Hillcrest.  They probably have some of this type of housing, poor neighborhoods usually bear the brunt of this sort of thing.  I Gar-on-tee they don't have a 75 unit place.  Nothing of that scale exists outside of downtown.

[AMP]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by AMP


A Holiday Inn at the eixt of I-244 on Yale lends itself to a great fit for that piece of realestate.  Would also be a good location for a 24 hour restaurant such as an I-Hop, Pancake Place or Waffle House as the only competition in that area is the Denny's at I-244 and Sheridan.  By charging $80+ a night for a room, the quality of the customer base is kept under control.

The 24 hour restaurant and motel/hotel franchise sales rep missed the boat on that location.  One would think they were called on the carpet and quizzed why they had not proposed this land to prospective investors when the news of this 70 unit facility hit the media.  

I forgot to mention the proximity to TU. I bet plenty of visitors like prospective students, families of students and sports fans would take advantage of a mid ranged facility so close to the campus. Lots of events happening throughout the year on the TU campus, athletic events, graduations, etc.. If I had the money to build a hotel there, I would. I bet it would be really succesful. Sames goes for a 24 hour restaurant there.

So why can't the owner of that property go out for bid from other investors and propose it for other use which it is zoned for at this point in time.  Did not read where the deal had been signed and the property closed on.  

If I owned that lot, I would be opening invitations to purchase at bid, and looking at the highest bidders.  With all the free advertising it has received, tens of thousands of words written about it, photos distributed,  mpgs of media coverage, talks shows spending days discussing the location, it seems the value would be at its peak at this point.  


Where is Daryl Baskin?

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

You keep calling this White City which from my memory starts around 4th street to 11th street. It is the only decent neighborhood in four directions, is bounded on the south by a gnarly looking prostitute and car lot laden thoroughfare which is more damaging to their values. It is hardly at risk for any negative consequences from this building's residents.

You'd rather see a motel/hotel? Highway hotels rarely do much to improve the neighborhoods they sit in unless its like a suburban Doubletree. Most of them attract truckers looking for strip joints nearby, groups of kids looking for someplace to party and druggies bunking up for a couple days. Go over by I-44 and Riverside and check out what you're asking for. Heck, just go up the street on Admiral and Memorial and see what wonderful things the motels have done for that area.

Why carry the battleflag for this skirmish?

In a few cities I travel to there are typically low end and high end hotel/motels near the same area.  The Holiday Inn runs $80 per night, while the mom and pop operated motel 1/2 mile away runs $45 per night.  At Admiral and I-244 one finds the same mix of pricing and quality.  

Depending on the quality, security and style one is seeking and their budget steers folks to choose one over the other. Most highway travelers don't stay long enough to survey the neighborhood, bath, bed, back of their eyelids, and the continental breakfast is most that the typically traveler ever sees.

A Holiday Inn at the eixt of I-244 on Yale lends itself to a great fit for that piece of realestate.  Would also be a good location for a 24 hour restaurant such as an I-Hop, Pancake Place or Waffle House as the only competition in that area is the Denny's at I-244 and Sheridan.  By charging $80+ a night for a room, the quality of the customer base is kept under control.

The 24 hour restaurant and motel/hotel franchise sales rep missed the boat on that location.  One would think they were called on the carpet and quizzed why they had not proposed this land to prospective investors when the news of this 70 unit facility hit the media.  

Come to think of it, don't recall ever seeing a For Sale sign posted on that lot?

Home Ownership

Home ownership should be the number one priority for those intending to live for more than a few years in an area.  In addition the mortgage companies earn their profits from providing mortgages and collecting monthly payments.  Rent only results in a receipt and no equity.  

If one earned only minimum wage today $6.55 per hour and worked 2080 hours per year, 40 hour work week, their total earnings would be around $1,340 per month.

Based on the minimum 30% of income for the monthly rental for these units one would think the majority of those earning upwards of $1,340 per month could afford to buy a house versus renting a room as they will be paying $340 per month. Actually if they claim and qualify for earned income tax credit, if they qualify for the maximum, they may be paying around $370 per month.  

Even at the minimum wage $340 payment that should make the mortgage payment on most homes north of Admiral Boulevard in Tulsa.  If they are married and both work that should increase to $680 per month payment based on the 30% rule of the housing deal. One should be qualified to purchase the majority of homes available north of 11th street for $680 per month payment today with the low property values, glut of vacant homes and low interest rates available.

WHAT HAPPEND TO SWEAT EQUITY?

http://www.homevestors.com/inthenews/news.php?id=80

Actually asumptions of existing home loans should be another avenue to explore to purchase older homes in distressed areas.  UG the Ugly House Buyer offerd $10,000 cash for a 3 bedroom house near Sheridan and Pine last week.  He provided six contracts that showed he had purchased those six homes, all of which were 2 bedrooms or 3 bedrooms, in the surrounding area for $10,000 and less.    Payment on that unit would be around $100 per month.      

Keep in mind minimum wage will increase again to $7.25 in July of 2009.  Or $1,256 per month average.  That is a minimum monthly payment of $376 based on the 30% rule.

One may be way better off to check the multi-lists prior to signing a deal on a room.  Or hang out around the Ug Buys Ugly Houses location on 15th street, and follow their rep to a few great home deals.  

I do not think someone making minimum wage should be buying a house. They should be more concerned with going to college and getting a career, or starting a business. Spending time upkeeping a house and yard at that point in ones life doesnt seem wise. Nor does locking oneself into a position of having lots of "stuff" to furnish and maintain a house, having to sell the house if you need to move for college or a better job, etc. also seems entirely the wrong thing to do. Its as though your assuming there will be a lot of people choosing to stay in minimum wage jobs for very long periods. Anyone, or couple, who would make that choice is setting themselves up for a life of hardship no matter how cheap the housing is. A person or couple (I dont think anyone making minimum wage should be thinking about getting married either, but thats a different discussion) at that point in their lives should maintain maximum flexibility, aka ability to move and have little to worry about moving, in order to take advantage of better job and educational opportunities no matter where in the country that may be.

The obvious exceptions would be people who are "down on their luck", have mental problems, etc. which then brings up the notion that people living in those types of situations in this neighborhood arent far removed from the situations that the people in the new Homeless Shelter are in. Its like the pot calling the kettle black. If there are houses going for 10,000 dollars in the area. I hardly see how this new building and the people in it will be bringing property values down or how the people in the area would think they are so much better off. Relatively speaking, they are truly all pretty much in the same boat.