Devon Tower in OKC Unveiled

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by okcpulse

quote: The problem is 'fixing what it can fix' and '*****ing about OKC taking the bigger share' go hand in hand.

I use the example time and again, but how long now has it taken for Tulsa to get I-44 widened? We've been working on it for 15 years, going on 15 more.

I'm obviously not the only one thinking this: the World's own polical cartoonist who lives in the area obviously thinks the same.

That is not our fault.  Blame it on ODOT.  And it is of no surprise, as well as pathetic, that Tulsa's local media endorses such divided behavior.  There is OKC stereotype written all over that cartoon.

Wow, I can't believe you just blamed it on ODOT.  ODOT isn't the entity that allots the funds to do the work, they're just the endpoint.

I can't see how the legislators from down the pike get away with this stuff.  It stinks to high-heaven.

[okcpulse]

quote: There is Truth written all over that cartoon.

Come to think of it, you're right.  There IS truth written all over that cartoon... in the form of a 'whoa is me' attitude on Tulsa's behalf.

ANYTIME ANYTHING successful happens in OKC that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with taking state tax dollars, you people are all over Oklahoma City's faults like flies on a corpse.  We have a company who is about to spend $750 million in PRIVATE money on a PRIVATE tower, and all you can do is accuse us of robbing state tax dollars.  That or say it won't get built.

But this is nothing new.  Before the Skirvin opened, people on this board said it would happen.  That was proven wrong in 2006.  Tulsans accused OKC of using state tax dollars to fund MAPS.  Not a penny of state taxes went on MAPS.  Nor did any state money go toward MAPS for Kids to overhaul OKC Public Schools.  Our new art museum downtown was built totally with private donations.  But screw all that.  

Sheesh.

[okcpulse]

quote:Wow, I can't believe you just blamed it on ODOT. ODOT isn't the entity that allots the funds to do the work, they're just the endpoint.

I can't see how the legislators from down the pike get away with this stuff. It stinks to high-heaven.

Until 2007, lawmakers decided which roads got fixed first.  That responsibility now lies with ODOT.  It is now only the legislature's job to determine ODOT's overall budget.  However, any project preceeding the new law has been grandfathered in.

Tell me Hoss, just what do Tulsa lawmakers do while they are at the capitol?

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by okcpulse

quote:Wow, I can't believe you just blamed it on ODOT. ODOT isn't the entity that allots the funds to do the work, they're just the endpoint.

I can't see how the legislators from down the pike get away with this stuff. It stinks to high-heaven.

Until 2007, lawmakers decided which roads got fixed first.  That responsibility now lies with ODOT.  It is now only the legislature's job to determine ODOT's overall budget.  However, any project preceeding the new law has been grandfathered in.

Tell me Hoss, just what do Tulsa lawmakers do while they are at the capitol?

Try and block the end-runs the OKC legislators do to hoard their portion of the public funding.  Evidently with little success.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by okcpulse

quote: There is Truth written all over that cartoon.

Come to think of it, you're right.  There IS truth written all over that cartoon... in the form of a 'whoa is me' attitude on Tulsa's behalf.

ANYTIME ANYTHING successful happens in OKC that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with taking state tax dollars, you people are all over Oklahoma City's faults like flies on a corpse.  We have a company who is about to spend $750 million in PRIVATE money on a PRIVATE tower, and all you can do is accuse us of robbing state tax dollars.  That or say it won't get built.

But this is nothing new.  Before the Skirvin opened, people on this board said it would happen.  That was proven wrong in 2006.  Tulsans accused OKC of using state tax dollars to fund MAPS.  Not a penny of state taxes went on MAPS.  Nor did any state money go toward MAPS for Kids to overhaul OKC Public Schools.  Our new art museum downtown was built totally with private donations.  But screw all that.  

Sheesh.

How about that state funding for YOUR basketball team?  We all know THAT isn't happening.

[B)]

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by okcpulse

quote:Wow, I can't believe you just blamed it on ODOT. ODOT isn't the entity that allots the funds to do the work, they're just the endpoint.

I can't see how the legislators from down the pike get away with this stuff. It stinks to high-heaven.

Until 2007, lawmakers decided which roads got fixed first.  That responsibility now lies with ODOT.  It is now only the legislature's job to determine ODOT's overall budget.  However, any project preceeding the new law has been grandfathered in.

Tell me Hoss, just what do Tulsa lawmakers do while they are at the capitol?

So in other words, we're stuck with how the legislators wanted it for a few more years then. Great.

What do they do in OKC? Golf, apparently. That and drive I-40 to work and say "I know we just redid this highway but let's re-do it again."

Let's not forget the state funding going to your airport, or to keep the heartland flyer running, or the state funding your mayor wants to fix the OKC mass transit system.

It's not an anti-OKC thing, it's a capital mentality. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and it has to be a very loud squeek for a non-capital city to get heard in a capital city.

[Hometown]

No one is responsible for the condition Tulsa finds herself in other than Tulsa.  Competition between cities is natural and healthy and the fact that Tulsa has fallen short in government funding is Tulsa's responsibility alone.  The fact that Tulsa has not aggressively fought to retain her energy business is our responsibility.  

We've had a prominent member of this forum argue that Tulsa shouldn't aspire to be anything other than a small city compared to Oklahoma City's status as a medium sized city.  We've had another prominent member of this forum argue that we should focus on rehabbing old smaller buildings instead of building a new tower.  So clearly there is no real focus here on where Tulsa needs to go.

Tulsa can over come any obstacle if she decides she wants to do that.

The Spanish War and World War I generation put Tulsa on the map and captured the Oil Capital moniker.  The World War II generation laid the ground work for our current situation by launching the "Diversification" mantra.  The Boomers engendered spurts of improvement but have generally presided over Tulsa's decline.  

[okcpulse]

quote: How about that state funding for YOUR basketball team? We all know THAT isn't happening.

We all agree that was a mistake.  But that is a loose argument.  Quality Jobs is a rebate program for high-paying jobs created in Oklahoma.  Tulsa got the same rebates with Whirlpool, Wiltel, State Farm, and soon Google.  The list goes on.  I could ***** and say we in OKC funded all of those jobs in Tulsa, but I know that is a thread of bickering just waiting to happen.

[okcpulse]

quote: Let's not forget the state funding going to your airport

Umm... what state funding for our airport?  Oh, you mean the new terminal.  Again, zero tax dollars were used.  That was paid for with a $3 usage fee for all airport patrons.  OKC even refused federal funding for that.

[okcpulse]

quote: I know we just redid this highway but let's re-do it again.

When and where was I-40 just redone?  Because it definitely wasn't the Crosstown Bridge.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by okcpulse

quote: I know we just redid this highway but let's re-do it again.

When and where was I-40 just redone?  Because it definitely wasn't the Crosstown Bridge.

You spent 4.3M on resurfacing it.

and I-44

and I-35

[TheArtist]

I was in a meeting and someone who used to work at the capitol was commenting on this "Tulsa" problem. It wasnt anything I hadnt really heard before but essentially the gist was.... Tulsa doesnt lobby for its share of the "goodies".  1. The politicians we have sent down there havent done a good job of doing that for us. 2. The Tulsa Chamber, City, or whatever doesnt have any lobbyists down there.
The person was describing how spending bills happen, how things get written in to be funded, etc.  How other cities and areas have people there, on the ground, on message, sticking stuff in and making sure their interests are taken care of.  Where is Tulsa?... Well they send a bus load of people down perhaps a couple times per year to lobby and complain, hand out a large pile of requests, then leave.

The person said that Tulsa needs a full time lobbyist down there. That Tulsa needs to focus on a consistent message, have say, 3 priorities, and hammer away at those. All our  local politicians need to be focused and on that same message. Working deals to get a select few issues done, not randomly rattling around on 100 different issues and gripes.

When the other guys are there lobbying for their share, they keep ON MESSAGE, they have TALKING POINTS that are repeated over and over, they are making the rounds, making friends, working deals, and where is Tulsa when the goodies are being doled out?,,,,the other guys just laugh at us and go, Oh well they are back in Tulsa griping about who knows what". And thats even if they think about us at all. They are fighting for their own concerns.


One of those "3 talking points" that we reeeeeally need to work on is OSU Tulsa. OSU Stillwater does NOT want OSU Tulsa to grow. I have heard this from many people who are supposedly "in the know". You want student housing down there?... we are going to have to be consistently on it, pushing hard to get it.

Who is doing that for us right now? Today? Can anyone tell me? What are they doing to get that for us?

What are Tulsas talking points, its major concerns and wants at this moment? What is everyone hearing from Tulsa right now? What is everyone hearing that we want at the capitol, in the lunch lines, in meetings, on the golf course, etc.? What are our 3 top priorities? What are the talking points that are being repeated over and over?

John Hope Franklin Memorial?.... Heck small towns all over Oklahoma are getting more for stuff, yet we cant send someone down there to get that small sum for us?  And I am not just talking politicians, Tulsa needs a FULL TIME lobbyist. Stick them in a hotel. Someone who is going to work hard and be there consistently and on message.

Us sitting around here whining and griping and occasionally sending up a bus load of people to whine and gripe aint gonna do it. That actually just makes them get more of a kick out of divvying up the pie to others who are there constantly pushing for what they want. You turn your back for a minute, your not there at the right time and place, dont have any focus, you lose.  

May not be the way its "supposed" to work, but thats how it DOES work. And until Tulsa gets serious. We are not gonna get our fare share. Its not up to the others to give anything to us. They want more for themselves and whiney, gripey, disorganized, unfocused Tulsa be danged.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I was in a meeting and someone who used to work at the capitol was commenting on this "Tulsa" problem. It wasnt anything I hadnt really heard before but essentially the gist was.... Tulsa doesnt lobby for its share of the "goodies".  1. The politicians we have sent down there havent done a good job of doing that for us. 2. The Tulsa Chamber, City, or whatever doesnt have any lobbyists down there.
The person was describing how spending bills happen, how things get written in to be funded, etc.  How other cities and areas have people there, on the ground, on message, sticking stuff in and making sure their interests are taken care of.  Where is Tulsa?... Well they send a bus load of people down perhaps a couple times per year to lobby and complain, hand out a large pile of requests, then leave.

The person said that Tulsa needs a full time lobbyist down there. That Tulsa needs to focus on a consistent message, have say, 3 priorities, and hammer away at those. All our  local politicians need to be focused and on that same message. Working deals to get a select few issues done, not randomly rattling around on 100 different issues and gripes.

When the other guys are there lobbying for their share, they keep ON MESSAGE, they have TALKING POINTS that are repeated over and over, they are making the rounds, making friends, working deals, and where is Tulsa when the goodies are being doled out?,,,,the other guys just laugh at us and go, Oh well they are back in Tulsa griping about who knows what". And thats even if they think about us at all. They are fighting for their own concerns.


One of those "3 talking points" that we reeeeeally need to work on is OSU Tulsa. OSU Stillwater does NOT want OSU Tulsa to grow. I have heard this from many people who are supposedly "in the know". You want student housing down there?... we are going to have to be consistently on it, pushing hard to get it.

Who is doing that for us right now? Today? Can anyone tell me? What are they doing to get that for us?

What are Tulsas talking points, its major concerns and wants at this moment? What is everyone hearing from Tulsa right now? What is everyone hearing that we want at the capitol, in the lunch lines, in meetings, on the golf course, etc.? What are our 3 top priorities? What are the talking points that are being repeated over and over?

John Hope Franklin Memorial?.... Heck small towns all over Oklahoma are getting more for stuff, yet we cant send someone down there to get that small sum for us?  And I am not just talking politicians, Tulsa needs a FULL TIME lobbyist. Stick them in a hotel. Someone who is going to work hard and be there consistently and on message.

Us sitting around here whining and griping and occasionally sending up a bus load of people to whine and gripe aint gonna do it. That actually just makes them get more of a kick out of divvying up the pie to others who are there constantly pushing for what they want. You turn your back for a minute, your not there at the right time and place, dont have any focus, you lose.  

May not be the way its "supposed" to work, but thats how it DOES work. And until Tulsa gets serious. We are not gonna get our fare share. Its not up to the others to give anything to us. They want more for themselves and whiney, gripey, disorganized, unfocused Tulsa be danged.

And just where was this former capital worker from?

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I was in a meeting and someone who used to work at the capitol was commenting on this "Tulsa" problem. It wasnt anything I hadnt really heard before but essentially the gist was.... Tulsa doesnt lobby for its share of the "goodies".  1. The politicians we have sent down there havent done a good job of doing that for us. 2. The Tulsa Chamber, City, or whatever doesnt have any lobbyists down there.
The person was describing how spending bills happen, how things get written in to be funded, etc.  How other cities and areas have people there, on the ground, on message, sticking stuff in and making sure their interests are taken care of.  Where is Tulsa?... Well they send a bus load of people down perhaps a couple times per year to lobby and complain, hand out a large pile of requests, then leave.

The person said that Tulsa needs a full time lobbyist down there. That Tulsa needs to focus on a consistent message, have say, 3 priorities, and hammer away at those. All our  local politicians need to be focused and on that same message. Working deals to get a select few issues done, not randomly rattling around on 100 different issues and gripes.

When the other guys are there lobbying for their share, they keep ON MESSAGE, they have TALKING POINTS that are repeated over and over, they are making the rounds, making friends, working deals, and where is Tulsa when the goodies are being doled out?,,,,the other guys just laugh at us and go, Oh well they are back in Tulsa griping about who knows what". And thats even if they think about us at all. They are fighting for their own concerns.


One of those "3 talking points" that we reeeeeally need to work on is OSU Tulsa. OSU Stillwater does NOT want OSU Tulsa to grow. I have heard this from many people who are supposedly "in the know". You want student housing down there?... we are going to have to be consistently on it, pushing hard to get it.

Who is doing that for us right now? Today? Can anyone tell me? What are they doing to get that for us?

What are Tulsas talking points, its major concerns and wants at this moment? What is everyone hearing from Tulsa right now? What is everyone hearing that we want at the capitol, in the lunch lines, in meetings, on the golf course, etc.? What are our 3 top priorities? What are the talking points that are being repeated over and over?

John Hope Franklin Memorial?.... Heck small towns all over Oklahoma are getting more for stuff, yet we cant send someone down there to get that small sum for us?  And I am not just talking politicians, Tulsa needs a FULL TIME lobbyist. Stick them in a hotel. Someone who is going to work hard and be there consistently and on message.

Us sitting around here whining and griping and occasionally sending up a bus load of people to whine and gripe aint gonna do it. That actually just makes them get more of a kick out of divvying up the pie to others who are there constantly pushing for what they want. You turn your back for a minute, your not there at the right time and place, dont have any focus, you lose.  

May not be the way its "supposed" to work, but thats how it DOES work. And until Tulsa gets serious. We are not gonna get our fare share. Its not up to the others to give anything to us. They want more for themselves and whiney, gripey, disorganized, unfocused Tulsa be danged.

The Artist is 100% correct.

We need a lobbyist or two or three in OKC working on our behalf everyday of the year.  Same is true for Washington D.C.

[okcpulse]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by okcpulse

quote: I know we just redid this highway but let's re-do it again.

When and where was I-40 just redone?  Because it definitely wasn't the Crosstown Bridge.

You spent 4.3M on resurfacing it.

and I-44

and I-35

That's it?  And just how many resurfacing prjects did Tulsa have three or four eyars ago when OKC had none....

I-244 and Gilcrease Expressway, Gilcrease Expressway expansion, I-75 in north Tulsa

Crosstown Bridge was not on the resurfacing list.  I-44 was shaved as was I-75.  I-40 was shaved as well, and I-35.  I-244 and Gilcrease got new blacktop.

Then Tulsa had a bragging fest after reports were released that Tulsa had better highway surfaces than that of OKC.  Then people in Tulsa joke about how bumpy and bad the highways are in OKC when they drive there, then they go back to Tulsa and blow their top when they find out Oklahoma City got the money to fix it.

Are we chasing a tail here?