BSW Closes Down

[citizen72]

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

hello! Flintco gets the casino work because it is an indian firm.
Gary Sparks is a nice guy (I know).
ALL ARCHITECTURAL FIRMS NEED (and contractors wish)THEY HAD EMPLOYEES WHO HAD ACTUAL DESIGN EXPERIENCE.
Some architects think a carpenters arm is 5' long.
wow.

Oh, oh here comes the old deficient incompetent architects story and the contractor riding in on their white steed to save the day with the unaware owner.

In a State where the contractor is not required to take any kind of test to be a G.C. there sure are a lot of intuitively smart builders.

This in an environment that requires the architect and his engineering consultants continually watch the building personnel like a hawk to ascertain the construction documents are followed.

Go blow your horn somewhere else. It is very tiring hearing this G.C. "tolerating the architect" dribble all the time.

[Conan71]

An architect I row with was telling me over a beer last night that BSW was the "big box" of architecture firms.  He also reiterated that the firm firm he works for is staying quite busy these days.

He speculated BSW's problems had less to do with national economy issues, but rather a lot of work getting shifted elsewhere.  He made BSW sound kind of like a people mill and that it had trained a lot of architects who went on to start their own firms when they got burned out at BSW.

[sgrizzle]

So BSW failed due to the economy... Is that like Fox Collision failing due to the insurance industry?

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

An architect I row with was telling me over a beer last night that BSW was the "big box" of architecture firms.  He also reiterated that the firm firm he works for is staying quite busy these days.

He speculated BSW's problems had less to do with national economy issues, but rather a lot of work getting shifted elsewhere.  He made BSW sound kind of like a people mill and that it had trained a lot of architects who went on to start their own firms when they got burned out at BSW.

Everyone has worked at BSW for at least 6 months.  EVERYONE.  Thats where most got their start until they wanted to go do design.  BSW had some great folks, but they were a cubicle farm, a skill filter.  

If it was big, white, and square, they probably designed it.

[ARGUS]

Thanks citizen for your comments.
Yes it does take a lot of oversight by architectural firms and engineering firms to get compliance to a spec. book and plans.
But my hostile fellow forum member you seem to fail at understanding my point. And that was there are architects out there that ONLY know it by the book and lack real world experience.
True this is a magnetic sign state........Got pick up? Yep. Got magnectic sign? Yep. Bingo your in bizness.
Blow my horn please.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

Thanks citizen for your comments.
Yes it does take a lot of oversight by architectural firms and engineering firms to get compliance to a spec. book and plans.
But my hostile fellow forum member you seem to fail at understanding my point. And that was there are architects out there that ONLY know it by the book and lack real world experience.
True this is a magnetic sign state........Got pick up? Yep. Got magnectic sign? Yep. Bingo your in bizness.
Blow my horn please.

I'm waiting until someone realizes the BOK Center is stainless and great for magnets.

[citizen72]

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

Thanks citizen for your comments.
Yes it does take a lot of oversight by architectural firms and engineering firms to get compliance to a spec. book and plans.
But my hostile fellow forum member you seem to fail at understanding my point. And that was there are architects out there that ONLY know it by the book and lack real world experience.
True this is a magnetic sign state........Got pick up? Yep. Got magnectic sign? Yep. Bingo your in bizness.
Blow my horn please.

I understand your point all too well. What it nearly always boils down to is one trying to make themselves out to be superior to another. You sound like someone that was perhaps given on-the-job training in construction. These teachers were most likely taught by other on-the-job trained people. It becomes a vicious cycle.  

If you get up even morning for forty years doing something wrong at the end of that forty years is it then right. No it isn't.

I will say this. I have been an architect for thirty five years and before that I was trained in construction by my contractor father. Know what? As I was developing as a professional I had to unlearn much of my father's teachings because it was technically wrong.

So, don't give me that old tired phrase that all architects know is the book. You would be well to listen more and talk less. It might just be an education.

And, it is not hostility I'm expressing here.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

Thanks citizen for your comments.
Yes it does take a lot of oversight by architectural firms and engineering firms to get compliance to a spec. book and plans.
But my hostile fellow forum member you seem to fail at understanding my point. And that was there are architects out there that ONLY know it by the book and lack real world experience.
True this is a magnetic sign state........Got pick up? Yep. Got magnectic sign? Yep. Bingo your in bizness.
Blow my horn please.

I'm waiting until someone realizes the BOK Center is stainless and great for magnets.

If a magnet will stick to it, we have another problem.  The cost of nickel over the past few years has gone up significantly.  That's why the new stainless steel grill you buy rusts out in a year or two.  Stainless manufacturers have found ways to supplement the alloy while still maintaining the ASTM specifications.  

This "less than stainless" stainless is a dead giveaway if a magnet will stick to it.  It has more iron than it should, and consequently will corrode much faster than the less ferris stainless steel.  It's also very susceptible to galvanic and chemical corrosion from weather.  The early stages of this corrosion will be dark streaks that wipe off as a black or grey residue with a metallic smell.  It will still last a long time, it will just loose it's shine and become dark grey and streaked.

I hope magnets don't stick to the BOK.  If so, I hope the metal is heavily laminated.

[ARGUS]

mr. citizen, I was not speaking in absoulutes about "ALL architects know is BOOK".Blame it on the internet. I am sorry your father taught you things you needed to UNLEARN. My father taught me things I still utilize and the architects that I have been around were thankful and impressed (possibly even you...who knows). The architects and engineers I have worked for and with have also taught me many valuable things and methods...know why? Mutual RESPECT.
You are somewhat correct on my so-called up bringing. Perhaps your father scrimped on the part of your lessons about learning from the other man on the job.
In a state where it is kind of the wild west (no GC certifications)if one is going to be successful you had better be intuitive.
I am not broke, still have all my fingers and have not killed anybody or been sued (or had my _ss kicked).
I think you have mis read the intent of my post about all architectural firms needing/wishing they had actual employees with real world field experience...I think that would be ideal...from both sides a such as a jr architect with some dirt under his nails and a superintendent with some classical design training/exposure.Why do architects ask a contractor for help in value engineering( I hate that term)? To see what the "other side" might be able to reveal to them from their knowledge that could streamline the process.
good day.

[citizen72]

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

mr. citizen, I was not speaking in absoulutes about "ALL architects know is BOOK".Blame it on the internet. I am sorry your father taught you things you needed to UNLEARN. My father taught me things I still utilize and the architects that I have been around were thankful and impressed (possibly even you...who knows). The architects and engineers I have worked for and with have also taught me many valuable things and methods...know why? Mutual RESPECT.
You are somewhat correct on my so-called up bringing. Perhaps your father scrimped on the part of your lessons about learning from the other man on the job.
In a state where it is kind of the wild west (no GC certifications)if one is going to be successful you had better be intuitive.
I am not broke, still have all my fingers and have not killed anybody or been sued (or had my _ss kicked).
I think you have mis read the intent of my post about all architectural firms needing/wishing they had actual employees with real world field experience...I think that would be ideal...from both sides a such as a jr architect with some dirt under his nails and a superintendent with some classical design training/exposure.Why do architects ask a contractor for help in value engineering( I hate that term)? To see what the "other side" might be able to reveal to them from their knowledge that could streamline the process.
good day.

And, as is normal you guys talk out of both sides of your mouth.

[ARGUS]

So much for middle ground. Thanks I appreciate that. After trying to be mellow and calmly & fairly debate and exchange information; I must dub you an "Internet Tuff Guy" and apparent "know it all"..let me guess...remember Martin's BBQ......they had an animal on their sign...and a slogan...."Everybody eats here but me...and you know what Iam!". I now must believe you are that animal.
Thanks for the civil discourse.

[citizen72]

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

So much for middle ground. Thanks I appreciate that. After trying to be mellow and calmly & fairly debate and exchange information; I must dub you an "Internet Tuff Guy" and apparent "know it all"..let me guess...remember Martin's BBQ......they had an animal on their sign...and a slogan...."Everybody eats here but me...and you know what Iam!". I now must believe you are that animal.
Thanks for the civil discourse.

No, I am not the internet tuff guy. Just remember whose comment started this ridiculous conversation. Yes, it was you with your snide remarks. I am weary up to my ears with construction guys who think it is cute and productive to make condescending remarks about Architects.

There could be a lot more said, but it would be to no avail so I will just stop here. Have a good day sir.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

Gary is a great guy!

Gary Sparks....of TMAPC fame?.....uh no.

[ARGUS]

citizen, I said SOME as in "some architects..."
I also said: ALL ARCHITECTS NEED....referring to the balance of actual "in field" work experience AND "book" training. It would seem foolish if one did not want an employee in this field with real world experience;correct?

Your an architect; what are a couple of projects you have worked on over the years?
I have been involved in mostly medical office/clinic & facility contruction to poured in place parking structures
to renal dialysis facilties to MRI installation and remodel to even metal building construction. I was a carpenter apprentice for 4 yrs, at one time long long  ago I was in the labor union (that was interesting). I think I know what's what and do speak not from a position of authority until absoulutly neccesary....In other words listen to the guy and see if what he is saying is logical before slamming him.
I meant no disrespect by my comments and dont think any were taken except by you.
Please reread this thread with that in mind to see if it hits you any different.