So What IS Obama Going To Do About Wall St.????

[FOTD]

"A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves." Edward R Murrow

Look out red riding hoods......

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Actually Conan, after reading the remarks he made, I think they will play well.

Wow.  I couldn't have predicted that...next you're going to tell me that McCain doesn't get it.

quote:Only the truly naive think we got to these crises without Republican malfeasance.

Please enlighten us with some credible evidence that proves Lehman/Fannie Mae/Etc are somehow the result of "Republican malfeasance"

Not to worry. McCain will be getting it soon enough!

Well, lets see.
Congress goes Republican in 1994...check.
Bush elected in 2000...check.
Bush re-elected in 2004....check.

There's your explanation. Can't argue those facts. Unlike Mr. Conan', I won't go back even farther and blame a Republican that displaced Jimmy Carter, who had proposed dropping the mortgage interest tax deduction on vacation homes.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Actually Conan, after reading the remarks he made, I think they will play well.

Wow.  I couldn't have predicted that...next you're going to tell me that McCain doesn't get it.

quote:Only the truly naive think we got to these crises without Republican malfeasance.

Please enlighten us with some credible evidence that proves Lehman/Fannie Mae/Etc are somehow the result of "Republican malfeasance"

Not to worry. McCain will be getting it soon enough!

Well, lets see.
Congress goes Republican in 1994...check.
Bush elected in 2000...check.
Bush re-elected in 2004....check.

There's your explanation. Can't argue those facts. Unlike Mr. Conan', I won't go back even farther and blame a Republican that displaced Jimmy Carter, who had proposed dropping the mortgage interest tax deduction on vacation homes.

Clinton re-elected in 1996
Dimocrats re-take HOR and Senate in 2006

Yep, conclusive evidence it's all the Republicans fault.  I totally agree with you Waterboy.

[waterboy]

Well, you should. Two years of a split congress with an obstructionist president hardly make up for a decade of Republican control. Clinton could only make proposals and even that for just one term. They tied him up the second one.

Face it Conan, this one's the property of the Republicans lock, stock, and barrel. "Mistakes are the only thing you can truly call your own"-Billy Joel.

I'm not buying your concept that Dems started the process back in the early 90's. Lack of oversight by a party heady with power and a comedic leader put us here.

[iplaw]

Maybe you can actually try and answer my question this time.  I know it's a lot to ask.

What exactly do Congress and/or the President have to do with Lehman Brothers falling into bankruptcy?  The last time I checked it appeares that it had something to do with the jackasses running the company.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Maybe Obama is just afraid of choking on another waffle?

FROM AP:While Obama Waffles takes aim at Obama's politics by poking fun at his public remarks and positions on issues, it also plays off the old image of the pancake-mix icon Aunt Jemima, which has been widely criticized as a demeaning stereotype. Obama is portrayed with popping eyes and big, thick lips as he stares at a plate of waffles and smiles broadly.

Placing Obama in Arab-like headdress recalls the false rumor that he is a follower of Islam, though he is actually a Christian.

On the back of the box, Obama is depicted in stereotypical Mexican dress, including a sombrero, above a recipe for "Open Border Fiesta Waffles" that says it can serve "4 or more illegal aliens." The recipe includes a tip: "While waiting for these zesty treats to invade your home, why not learn a foreign language?"

The novelty item also takes shots at 2004 Democratic nominee John Kerry, Obama's wife, Michelle, and Obama's former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright."

Conan! Good job passing on racism. No wonder you're for the stupid old damaged white guy.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Well, you should. Two years of a split congress with an obstructionist president hardly make up for a decade of Republican control. Clinton could only make proposals and even that for just one term. They tied him up the second one.

Face it Conan, this one's the property of the Republicans lock, stock, and barrel. "Mistakes are the only thing you can truly call your own"-Billy Joel.

I'm not buying your concept that Dems started the process back in the early 90's. Lack of oversight by a party heady with power and a comedic leader put us here.

Okay, are you just yanking my chain, or are you really not piecing together that the Clinton/Cisneros housing initiatives helped orchestrate the subprime orgy?  

It's not my concept, it's reality, Waterboy.   There is no way in hell anyone in their right mind can't understand what the precursor was to the whole real estate, mortgage, and debt brokerage crisis.

In case you missed the thread:

"Clinton/Gore ran on this homeownership progress in 1996:

"The President understands that homeownership is the key to empowering local residents and giving them a stake in the community. HUD Secretary Cisneros, has worked tirelessly with the private sector to see home ownership reach a 15-year high. In fact, we are experiencing the longest uninterrupted expansion of homeownership in 30 years - a record 66.3 million American households now own their own homes. And homeownership initiatives are now working in cities like Detroit, Buffalo, New York City and Baltimore.


In fact, Fortune Magazine just rated Baltimore as one of the 15 best cities to live in. Significant improvements in the quality of life in Baltimore are due in large part to the partnership that developed between local officials and the Clinton-Gore Administration. The Clinton Administration's commitment to reclaiming abandoned industrial sites, improving access to capital and making homeownership easier has created jobs and at the same time made more people want to live in the cities of America again."

The whole article is an interesting historical perspective on Detroit.

http://www.usmayors.org/USCM/us_mayor_newspaper/documents/10_28_96/documents/_Clinton_Urban_Policy_Helps_Move_Cities_Ahead_111396.html

"Faith in the benefits of homeownership—along with low interest rates and a range of governmental incentives—have produced a surge in the number of low-income homeowners. In 1994 Bill Clinton set—and ultimately surpassed—a goal to raise the nation's overall homeownership rate to 67.5% by 2000. There are now 71 million U.S. homeowners, representing close to 68% of all households. By 2003, 48% of black households owned their own homes, up from 34.5% in 1950. Much of this gain has been among low-income families.

Government efforts to increase homeownership for low-income families include both demand-side (e.g., homeowner tax credits, housing cost assistance programs) and supply-side (e.g., developer incentives) strategies. Federal housing programs insure more than a million loans a year to help low-income homebuyers. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—the large, federally chartered but privately held corporations that buy mortgages from lenders, guarantee the notes, and then resell them to investors—have increasingly turned their attention to low-income homebuyers as the upper-income housing market becomes more saturated. Banking industry regulations such as the Community Reinvestment Act and the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act encourage homeownership by reducing lending discrimination in underserved markets."

http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2007/0507karger.html

The National Homeownership Strategy began in 1994 when Clinton directed HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros to come up with a plan, and Cisneros convened what HUD called a "historic meeting" of private and public housing-industry organizations in August 1994. The group eventually produced a plan, of which Mason sent me a PDF of Chapter 4, the one that argues for creative measures to promote homeownership.

The very worst idea in the plan, which fortunately never gained approval, was to let first-time homebuyers freely tap their IRA and 401(k) retirement-savings plans with no penalty to scrounge up a downpayment. That, HUD estimated, would have "benefited" 600,000 families in the first five years.

Plenty of other ideas in the plan did become reality, though. Knowing what we know now about the housing bust, the earnest language in the document seems faintly ridiculous. Here's an excerpt. Read it closely and you can see the seeds of disaster being planted:

For many potential homebuyers, the lack of cash available to accumulate the required downpayment and closing costs is the major impediment to purchasing a home. Other households do not have sufficient available income to to make the monthly payments on mortgages financed at market interest rates for standard loan terms. Financing strategies, fueled by the creativity and resources of the private and public sectors, should address both of these financial barriers to homeownership.
Note the praise for "creativity." That kind of creativity in stretching boundaries we could use less of. Mason puts it well: "It strikes me as reckless to promote home sales to individuals in such constrained financial predicaments."

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2008/02/clintons_drive.html "

[FOTD]

Conan....it's hard to look at any postings by people who pass out racist garbarge like you do.

No wonder you are voting for the souless old white guy......

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Conan....it's hard to look at any postings by people who pass out racist garbarge like you do.

No wonder you are voting for the souless old white guy......

You're a fu$^ing child.  Take your race baiting somewhere else.

[waterboy]

I am not disputing that EVERYONE thought increasing home ownership was a good idea in the 1990's. EVERYONE Conan. Did you oppose these reforms in the early 90's? It was supposed to be, and was in fact a successful effort to decrease crime, slums and hopelessness by increasing the stake people had in their neighborhoods. The bonus was that investors and mortgage companies could do well too and during the Clinton years, they did. But most of this assumed that regulatory agencies would not be gutted by neo-con idealogues that let every corner be cut, every opportunity for gouging to be had. If you like I can flood these pages with anti-regulation actions by the Bush administration. Its not that they eliminated positions, they didn't adequately fund agencies or provide knowledgeable leadership for them. Hello? Katrina? USDA? National Park Service? It isn't a secret anymore.

You and your links are TOTALLY ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACKING a game that's already been played by rules that players and coaches agreed upon. Remember, his first term required agreement with a Republican owned congress. His second term was practically lame duck from day one as Republicans solidified their control.

So lead on brothers. If you think you can hang this stinker on Democrats that had to deal with Gingrich head hunting Republicans, or a split congress under Emperor Bush II, the king of vetoes, well, take your best shot. This one is off target.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Maybe you can actually try and answer my question this time.  I know it's a lot to ask.

What exactly do Congress and/or the President have to do with Lehman Brothers falling into bankruptcy?  The last time I checked it appeares that it had something to do with the jackasses running the company.

Hey, you guys are the smart ones. I'm just trying to keep up! Lehman Brothers is just the latest group of jackasses to show up. They somehow couldn't talk the feds into saving their butts (finally! Just say no!). Next up is auto makers (we didn't know the public wanted fuel efficient cars, can you help us?) Then credit card companies (you mean 29.9% apr is gouging? Who knew?)

IMO it is the atmosphere of "market rules, government drools" that has proliferated during the last decade that has germinated these seeds. Markets have to have someone watching the till.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Maybe you can actually try and answer my question this time.  I know it's a lot to ask.

What exactly do Congress and/or the President have to do with Lehman Brothers falling into bankruptcy?  The last time I checked it appeares that it had something to do with the jackasses running the company.

Hey, you guys are the smart ones. I'm just trying to keep up! Lehman Brothers is just the latest group of jackasses to show up. They somehow couldn't talk the feds into saving their butts (finally! Just say no!). Next up is auto makers (we didn't know the public wanted fuel efficient cars, can you help us?) Then credit card companies (you mean 29.9% apr is gouging? Who knew?)

IMO it is the atmosphere of "market rules, government drools" that has proliferated during the last decade that has germinated these seeds. Markets have to have someone watching the till.

I'm not following you.  If we acutally left it up to the market, NONE of these companies would get bailed out.  They all die a much deserved death for ignorant business practices.

The government is the agent that's allowing these jackasses to get away irresponsible behavior.

[Red Arrow]

I have not been a fan of the Kennedys but even I think JFK would be appalled with the attitude of many today...

Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you.

(Notice no quote marks.)

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Conan....it's hard to look at any postings by people who pass out racist garbarge like you do.

No wonder you are voting for the souless old white guy......

You're a fu$^ing child.  Take your race baiting somewhere else.

Tell that to AP....you are so stupid, no wonder you're for that stupid white guy. Birds of a feather.

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
-- Henry Louis Mencken

[Red Arrow]

"stupid white guy" would be racist with any other color.