The Fundamentals of are economy are STRONG?????

[pmcalk]

So McCain once again said yesterday that the fundamentals of our economy are strong, while the stock market plummeted 500 points, and Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy.  Unemployment is high, and the deficit is soaring.  The news networks—never ones to underplay a crisis—were warning of the apocalypse.  Plenty has been and will be written about how out of touch McCain must be, but his statement signaled something else for me.

How inept must a politician be to be quoting Herbert Hoover on a day like yesterday?

I am really curious if perhaps McCain is losing it.  

[we vs us]

The fundamentals are right where they need to be.  Why?  We the People just bought ourselves an 80% stake in AIG!

Hell, just right there we insured ourselves against all the fundamentals you can think of!

Vote Bernanke/Paulson 2008! Countrywide First!

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

So McCain once again said yesterday that the fundamentals of our economy are strong, while the stock market plummeted 500 points, and Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy.  Unemployment is high, and the deficit is soaring.  The news networks—never ones to underplay a crisis—were warning of the apocalypse.  Plenty has been and will be written about how out of touch McCain must be, but his statement signaled something else for me.

How inept must a politician be to be quoting Herbert Hoover on a day like yesterday?

I am really curious if perhaps McCain is losing it.  

Strange.  You haven't mentioned the fundamentals of the US economy in your post.  The stock market and a few failed banks and investment/insurance firms does not the economy make.  Hint: how about indicators (those are numbers).

Keep going.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

Strange.  You haven't mentioned the fundamentals of the US economy in your post.  The stock market and a few failed banks and investment/insurance firms does not the economy make.  Hint: how about indicators (those are numbers).

Keep going.

If by fundamentals, McCain means "capitalism," he may be sort of right.  If he means "inflation, unemployment, and various confidence indicators are all currently up" then he's either lying or he's ignorant.

And actually, just to circle back, if he means "capitalism" is fundamentally sound, he may also be wrong.  Valuing risk is an inherent part of how capitalism works, and this string of failures occurred because the investment banks (and the mortgage lenders, and AIG, which is the biggest insurance company in the country) don't know how to value all the junky mortgage instruments in their portfolios.  So, in actuality, this crisis actually does point out a fundamental flaw. If no one knows what something's worth, how can other market players buy or sell or invest in it?

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

So McCain once again said yesterday that the fundamentals of our economy are strong, while the stock market plummeted 500 points, and Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy.  Unemployment is high, and the deficit is soaring.  The news networks—never ones to underplay a crisis—were warning of the apocalypse.  Plenty has been and will be written about how out of touch McCain must be, but his statement signaled something else for me.

How inept must a politician be to be quoting Herbert Hoover on a day like yesterday?

I am really curious if perhaps McCain is losing it.  

Strange.  You haven't mentioned the fundamentals of the US economy in your post.  The stock market and a few failed banks and investment/insurance firms does not the economy make.  Hint: how about indicators (those are numbers).

Keep going.

If that's the case then why did the fedrl gubmint just bail out AIG to the tune of (from the taxpayers, mind you) $85 billion?  Along with Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac.  And Bears Stearn?

Move along.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

So McCain once again said yesterday that the fundamentals of our economy are strong, while the stock market plummeted 500 points, and Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy.  Unemployment is high, and the deficit is soaring.  The news networks—never ones to underplay a crisis—were warning of the apocalypse.  Plenty has been and will be written about how out of touch McCain must be, but his statement signaled something else for me.

How inept must a politician be to be quoting Herbert Hoover on a day like yesterday?

I am really curious if perhaps McCain is losing it.  

Strange.  You haven't mentioned the fundamentals of the US economy in your post.  The stock market and a few failed banks and investment/insurance firms does not the economy make.  Hint: how about indicators (those are numbers).

Keep going.

You miss the point.  Whatever you think about the economic indicators is irrelevant.  Why would your candidate be quoting Herbert Hoover on a day that the majority of Americans feel that the economy is in shambles?  It's kind of like quoting Custer before a battle.

If he is this inept at running for president, what sort of administration would he have?

[CoffeeBean]

McCain Thinks Americans Kick donkey

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

So McCain once again said yesterday that the fundamentals of our economy are strong, while the stock market plummeted 500 points, and Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy.  Unemployment is high, and the deficit is soaring.  The news networks—never ones to underplay a crisis—were warning of the apocalypse.  Plenty has been and will be written about how out of touch McCain must be, but his statement signaled something else for me.

How inept must a politician be to be quoting Herbert Hoover on a day like yesterday?

I am really curious if perhaps McCain is losing it.  

Strange.  You haven't mentioned the fundamentals of the US economy in your post.  The stock market and a few failed banks and investment/insurance firms does not the economy make.  Hint: how about indicators (those are numbers).

Keep going.

You miss the point.  Whatever you think about the economic indicators is irrelevant.  Why would your candidate be quoting Herbert Hoover on a day that the majority of Americans feel that the economy is in shambles?  It's kind of like quoting Custer before a battle.

If he is this inept at running for president, what sort of administration would he have?

IOW, pay no attention to the facts as long as the American people THINK the country's on fire economically.  Then hope our candidates play on their fears regarless of the truth.

[CoffeeBean]

^^^So . . . looking at the facts only, I guess AIG was not in trouble, that an $80 billion bailout of a private insurance company is routine in American history, that failures of Bear, Lehman and Merrill are no big deal?  

Riiiiiiiight.  Keep lying to yourself.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by CoffeeBean

^^^So . . . looking at the facts only, I guess AIG was not in trouble, that an $80 billion bailout of a private insurance company is routine in American history, that failures of Bear, Lehman and Merrill are no big deal?  

Riiiiiiiight.  Keep lying to yourself.

How do the failures of individual businesses "prove" that the economy is in shambles?  Without exception, these business failed because of poor business practices.

Baseline indicators have proven (even after 9/11) that we can withstand a hell of a lot more than a few businesses going belly up.

[grahambino]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by CoffeeBean

^^^So . . . looking at the facts only, I guess AIG was not in trouble, that an $80 billion bailout of a private insurance company is routine in American history, that failures of Bear, Lehman and Merrill are no big deal?  

Riiiiiiiight.  Keep lying to yourself.

How do the failures of individual businesses "prove" that the economy is in shambles?  Without exception, these business failed because of poor business practices.

Baseline indicators have proven (even after 9/11) that we can withstand a hell of a lot more than a few businesses going belly up.

the treasury dept. apparently doesn't seem to think so.  these 'individual businesses' have been repeatedly described as 'too big to fail'  remember the airline bailouts after 9/11?  
'individual businesses' that's a pretty flippant way to describe multinational corporations with billions of dollars of capital, employing tens of thousands of professionals.  okay, sure.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by grahambino

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by CoffeeBean

^^^So . . . looking at the facts only, I guess AIG was not in trouble, that an $80 billion bailout of a private insurance company is routine in American history, that failures of Bear, Lehman and Merrill are no big deal?  

Riiiiiiiight.  Keep lying to yourself.

How do the failures of individual businesses "prove" that the economy is in shambles?  Without exception, these business failed because of poor business practices.

Baseline indicators have proven (even after 9/11) that we can withstand a hell of a lot more than a few businesses going belly up.

the treasury dept. apparently doesn't seem to think so.  these 'individual businesses' have been repeatedly described as 'too big to fail'  remember the airline bailouts after 9/11?  
'individual businesses' that's a pretty flippant way to describe multinational corporations with billions of dollars of capital, employing tens of thousands of professionals.  okay, sure.

Yes I do remember, and it was a mistake then as well.

Flippant or not, you still failed to answer my question.

[waterboy]

I have been reading on this forum spirited defenses of our economy for over a year now. The conclusions of the most sophisticated, well educated thinkers on this forum have hotly defended with wonderfully strong links that we are just fine, thank you very much.

Well, this isn't fine. Ignoring it or minimizing it won't make things better. 30,000 lost jobs here, buyouts of huge banks, mortgage companies and insurance companies there, and staggering debt everywhere. Any one of these failures alone would be understandably of little concern. But not all in 8 month period.

Forbes thinks we're in trouble, Greenspan thinks so, and a lot of others are very tight lipped. If the best thing you can say is "the fundamentals are strong..." Lord help us that says a lot.

Make note of this. All incumbents administrations sweeten the pot when re-election time comes. Even the mayors of Tulsa used to make sure the BA expressway got a new coat of asphalt before their re-elections. If this is the best the Republican administration can do to support McCain in his time of need, either they don't like him or we don't have any ammo left.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

So McCain once again said yesterday that the fundamentals of our economy are strong, while the stock market plummeted 500 points, and Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy.  Unemployment is high, and the deficit is soaring.  The news networks—never ones to underplay a crisis—were warning of the apocalypse.  Plenty has been and will be written about how out of touch McCain must be, but his statement signaled something else for me.

How inept must a politician be to be quoting Herbert Hoover on a day like yesterday?

I am really curious if perhaps McCain is losing it.  

Strange.  You haven't mentioned the fundamentals of the US economy in your post.  The stock market and a few failed banks and investment/insurance firms does not the economy make.  Hint: how about indicators (those are numbers).

Keep going.

You miss the point.  Whatever you think about the economic indicators is irrelevant.  Why would your candidate be quoting Herbert Hoover on a day that the majority of Americans feel that the economy is in shambles?  It's kind of like quoting Custer before a battle.

If he is this inept at running for president, what sort of administration would he have?

Thats what I was waiting for. . . the word FEEL.  All done here!

GDP up. GNP up. CPI down (actually going down another .1 % today).   Consumer spending up.  Mortgage refinance index up 15.4% Wow!  Housing starts jump 1.6% announced today.  Target futures on oil are at $88 a barrel (unrelated but I'm happy about it none the less, gonna buy some options).

So while most libs FEEL like the economy is in shambles, most actual people, including libs, aren't showing it.  Actions and numbers speak louder than tears.

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

GDP up. GNP up. CPI down (actually going down another .1 % today).   Consumer spending up.  Mortgage refinance index up 15.4% Wow!  Housing starts jump 1.6% announced today.  Target futures on oil are at $88 a barrel (unrelated but I'm happy about it none the less, gonna buy some options).

Gaspar, I don't think even the biggest optimist is delusional enough to be doing cartwheels over the current economy.

There have been just too many shocks to the system in a short time. The housing bust, doubled inflation, staggeringly high oil prices, rising unemployment and now a slew of financial houses teetering on collapse. About the only reason the GNP was in positive territory in the third quarter was the stimulus checks.

Yes, the U.S. economy is resilient. But no economy stands strong when it keeps absorbing massive body blows. You don't stand strong; you grab onto the ropes and hold on for dear life until the crisis passes.