Palin: To know her is to not like her so much

[pmcalk]

First, not everyone thought WJC was a likable guy, just as not everyone thinks Palin is very likable (I'm sure you saw the thousands that turned out to stage a rally against her in Alaska, not to mention the fact that her own mother in law may not vote for her.  Ok, ok, my mother in law might not vote for me either).  Second, do you really believe that?  Who would you rather have when dealing with Putin--someone who is likeable or someone who is smart?  Who do you want solving the economic crises--someone who is likeable or someone who is smart?

I think a world class education is important to running our country--it provides you with the tools needed to address world crises.  But my point of Clinton's academics was more that it was proof of his intelligence.

As for the sexism that HRC & KBH faced, I simply say that based upon the realities of their time.  They are my mother's age--my mother who was told that she could take some secretarial courses after she completed highschool, just in case, but that my grandfather wouldn't waste money on college for her.  They grew up in a time when it was legal to fire a woman once she became pregnant.  When the only jobs for women were secretaries and nurses.  I don't support a lot of what KBH stands for, but I respect women who fought through that.  If she had been chosen as McCain's running mate, I would have still argued against her, sure, but I wouldn't have said she was unfit to be VP.

I am sure that Palin has fought through some sexism.  Sexism still exists.  But it takes on a different form.  She has grown up in an era when woman were taught they could do anything they want.

As for Universal Healthcare, I think a lot of that depends on the approach.  Obama/Biden's approach would maintain private insurance companies--not necessarily the government.  Mostly, I think that something must be done if we are going to compete with the rest of the world.  Private companies right now are paying huge amounts of money to provide healthcare to their employees, while competing with companies in other countries whose government overseas healthcare in one way or another.  We must reduce healthcare costs one way or another if we are going to compete on a global market.  If, however, any candidate ends up proposing a healthcare plan that in any way limits a person's access to medical treatment based upon someone else's idea of morality, I would fight it.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

First, not everyone thought WJC was a likable guy, just as not everyone thinks Palin is very likable (I'm sure you saw the thousands that turned out to stage a rally against her in Alaska, not to mention the fact that her own mother in law may not vote for her.  Ok, ok, my mother in law might not vote for me either).  Second, do you really believe that?  Who would you rather have when dealing with Putin--someone who is likeable or someone who is smart?  Who do you want solving the economic crises--someone who is likeable or someone who is smart?

I think a world class education is important to running our country--it provides you with the tools needed to address world crises.  But my point of Clinton's academics was more that it was proof of his intelligence.

As for the sexism that HRC & KBH faced, I simply say that based upon the realities of their time.  They are my mother's age--my mother who was told that she could take some secretarial courses after she completed highschool, just in case, but that my grandfather wouldn't waste money on college for her.  They grew up in a time when it was legal to fire a woman once she became pregnant.  When the only jobs for women were secretaries and nurses.  I don't support a lot of what KBH stands for, but I respect women who fought through that.  If she had been chosen as McCain's running mate, I would have still argued against her, sure, but I wouldn't have said she was unfit to be VP.

I am sure that Palin has fought through some sexism.  Sexism still exists.  But it takes on a different form.  She has grown up in an era when woman were taught they could do anything they want.

As for Universal Healthcare, I think a lot of that depends on the approach.  Obama/Biden's approach would maintain private insurance companies--not necessarily the government.  Mostly, I think that something must be done if we are going to compete with the rest of the world.  Private companies right now are paying huge amounts of money to provide healthcare to their employees, while competing with companies in other countries whose government overseas healthcare in one way or another.  We must reduce healthcare costs one way or another if we are going to compete on a global market.  If, however, any candidate ends up proposing a healthcare plan that in any way limits a person's access to medical treatment based upon someone else's idea of morality, I would fight it.

Actually, KBH and HRC were in the first generation of women to not face the sexism in education nor so much in the workplace.  I won't deny it didn't exist, but by the late 1960's it wasn't a slam-dunk assertion that a woman's place was in the home.  More and more women were moving on to post-graduate educations.  My mother was from the same era as well.

The absolute smartest person I've ever met has never taken a college course.  His business accumen is unquestionable and he's a brilliant engineer who is consistently called upon to fix problems which "looked good on paper" that were designed by schooled and licensed engineers.  

An academic career like Clinton had would certainly be an indicator of a bright and high-achieving person, but not having had the same opportunities is no reason to assume someone is a complete dolt, nor unqualified to lead.  Ronald Reagan graduated from Eureka College and certainly was a very effective President.

Born leaders don't all go to Harvard or Yale or get a Rhodes Scholarship.

It's interesting to note that many people gloss over the corporate welfare, normally favored by Republicans, hidden in UHC.  Think about what you just said about the benefit to private companies on this.  I agree, this is one of the more daunting issues to private enterprise, but I don't know that the best solution involves the gov't.

I have a number of ideas how to cut healthcare costs.  The government stepping in to manage the payment for all of it is not a great idea.  A close family member works with a large medicare program day in and day out.  She considered herself a liberal until she started looking at the waste, redundancy, and abuse of the system by the end users and vendors.  The taxpayer gets ripped off while patients get limited options.

There are more and more doctors refusing to take Medicare.  The government dictating how much medical care is worth is not the proper way to contain costs nor to administer it.

My mother had to change orthopedists because her ortho quit taking medicare and she's even got one of the supplimental plans- he still wouldn't see her except on a cash basis.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71
Actually, KBH and HRC were in the first generation of women to not face the sexism in education nor so much in the workplace.  I won't deny it didn't exist, but by the late 1960's it wasn't a slam-dunk assertion that a woman's place was in the home.  More and more women were moving on to post-graduate educations.  My mother was from the same era as well.

Are you just trying to be argumentative?  Hillary Clinton graduated from Highschool, like my mother, in the early 1960s.  The Civil Rights Act was not passed until 1964 (incidently, "sex" was added to the act in an effort to defeat it).  Discrimination in education largely continued despite the CRA until Title IX was passed in 1972--when Clinton was in Law School.  When Clinton graduated from Yale, less than 10% of JD graduates were woman.  Sexual harassment was not determined to be a form of discrimination until 1978.  Similarly, discrimination based upon pregnancy was legal until that same year.  Yes, discrimination based upon sex still exists.  But to argue say that women like KBH & HRC had anything but a tough road is disingenuous.

quote:
The absolute smartest person I've ever met has never taken a college course.  His business accumen is unquestionable and he's a brilliant engineer who is consistently called upon to fix problems which "looked good on paper" that were designed by schooled and licensed engineers.  

An academic career like Clinton had would certainly be an indicator of a bright and high-achieving person, but not having had the same opportunities is no reason to assume someone is a complete dolt, nor unqualified to lead.  Ronald Reagan graduated from Eureka College and certainly was a very effective President.

Born leaders don't all go to Harvard or Yale or get a Rhodes Scholarship.

Again, I don't disagree.  But if I am going to choose someone to be the leader of the United States, I must have some basis upon which to judge them.  Neither Biden nor McCain have particularly stellar academic records, but they have a long record of votes and decisions that allows me to judge their qualifications.  They have experience, and while you may question their decisions/judgement, you at least have a record upon which to judge.  Palin has absolutely nothing.  She has not significant legislative experience, no outstanding academic record, nothing.  AND SHE WON'T TAKE QUESTIONS.  The two softball interviews that she has had showed she had little knowledge of foreign affairs, despite the craming by McCain consultants.  Could you imagine if a democrat had choosen a complete unknown, then refused to answer reporter questions?  McCain choose someone who has never written anything, never taken a position on much of anything, that has no real exeperience, and a pretty un-extraordinary academic record.  And then when people try to learn more about her, we are told that we cannot ask questions until we show more deference.  What is she running for, the queen?

quote:
It's interesting to note that many people gloss over the corporate welfare, normally favored by Republicans, hidden in UHC.  Think about what you just said about the benefit to private companies on this.  I agree, this is one of the more daunting issues to private enterprise, but I don't know that the best solution involves the gov't.

I have a number of ideas how to cut healthcare costs.  The government stepping in to manage the payment for all of it is not a great idea.  A close family member works with a large medicare program day in and day out.  She considered herself a liberal until she started looking at the waste, redundancy, and abuse of the system by the end users and vendors.  The taxpayer gets ripped off while patients get limited options.

There are more and more doctors refusing to take Medicare.  The government dictating how much medical care is worth is not the proper way to contain costs nor to administer it.

My mother had to change orthopedists because her ortho quit taking medicare and she's even got one of the supplimental plans- he still wouldn't see her except on a cash basis.

Obviously, we are not going to agree on healthcare.  But at least you know where the other candidates stand.  Honestly, do you have any idea what Palin thinks about the healthcare crises?  Do you have any proof that she has ever even thought about it?  Has she looked at what other countries have done?  Does she even know what we spend as a nation on healthcare?  What would her solution be?

[Crash Daily]

I think she has put consideration in to these areas. As a governor, she had to consider these issues on the state level. She probably has well thought ideas regarding most major issues. We will learn more when she gets her chance to rip Biden a new one.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by Crash Daily

I think she has put consideration in to these areas. As a governor, she had to consider these issues on the state level. She probably has well thought ideas regarding most major issues. We will learn more when she gets her chance to rip Biden a new one.

Too bad she'll call Joe by name about 150 times during the debate and then have to be told where half the countries in the world are.  Biden's probably been to half of em.

[Crash Daily]

http://townhall.com/funnies/cartoonist/ChuckAsay/2008/09/5

I'll take her experience, thank you very much. A small rose garden is preferable to a large garbage dump.