This is not right

[Gaspar]

No matter what side it happens to, this is not right.

The Catholic Church is starting to be vocal, issuing articles and advice to parishioners not to vote for Obama because of Biden's words about abortion.

On September 7 Biden grossly misrepresented the Catholic Church's teaching on abortion and audaciously cited St Thomas Aquinas in his own cause.  This has made the church furious and echoed all the way to the Prefect of the Apostolic Segnatura in Rome.

Pastoral letters are being issued to catholic voters to influence their votes.

One quarter of all registered voters are Catholics.  If they increase this rhetoric, it will certainly affect the election.

Again, I don't care what side this happens to, it's wrong.  I have no problem with religious leaders endorsing a candidate, but the catholic church is unique, because they hold special power with their parishioners, and leave little separation between the will of the church and the will of god.

[guido911]

I disagree with you on this one. The Catholic Church, or any church for that matter, is not some amorphous entity. Churches are comprised of people. These people have opinions on issues based on a belief system. I personally, and I mean personally, see no difference between churches and any other special interest group that vote as a collective for the own interests (i.e. teachers unions and NOW for dems). If it happens that Catholics are so offended by Biden's comments that they turn out to vote against dems, so be it.

[rwarn17588]

I say yank the church's tax-exempt status. Then let's see how much politicking they do.

And, yes, I agree with Gaspar. It's wrong -- especially when you have priests with the power to deny communion and thus damning their own parishioners if they don't toe their dubious line.

This is the same church hierarchy that looked away for years when hundreds of priests molested and raped children. Yet they're going to take a stand on a presidential race?

To hell with them. And I mean it literally.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

I disagree with you on this one. The Catholic Church, or any church for that matter, is not some amorphous entity. Churches are comprised of people. These people have opinions on issues based on a belief system. I personally, and I mean personally, see no difference between churches and any other special interest group that vote as a collective for the own interests (i.e. teachers unions and NOW for dems). If it happens that Catholics are so offended by Biden's comments that they turn out to vote against dems, so be it.

You don't see any difference???  Political groups pay taxes.  Churches don't.  That's the difference.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

I disagree with you on this one. The Catholic Church, or any church for that matter, is not some amorphous entity. Churches are comprised of people. These people have opinions on issues based on a belief system. I personally, and I mean personally, see no difference between churches and any other special interest group that vote as a collective for the own interests (i.e. teachers unions and NOW for dems). If it happens that Catholics are so offended by Biden's comments that they turn out to vote against dems, so be it.

Like I said before, I don't have a problem with a religious leader showing support or distain for a candidate.  

I think this is vastly different, but you may be right, the church does not know what happens when someone enters the voting booth.  At that point it is just between them and their personal beliefs.

[Conan71]

We are getting into a slippery slope on Church/State here, and non-profits with tax-exempt status getting involved in politics but I guarantee there are many urban churches encouraging a vote for Obama.

I've personally listened to Carlton Pearson endorse Obama from the pulpit.  I've also heard conservative candidates endorsed from the pulpit.  It happens.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by guido911

I disagree with you on this one. The Catholic Church, or any church for that matter, is not some amorphous entity. Churches are comprised of people. These people have opinions on issues based on a belief system. I personally, and I mean personally, see no difference between churches and any other special interest group that vote as a collective for the own interests (i.e. teachers unions and NOW for dems). If it happens that Catholics are so offended by Biden's comments that they turn out to vote against dems, so be it.

You don't see any difference???  Political groups pay taxes.  Churches don't.  That's the difference.

Oh I get it. To have free speech in this country you have to pay taxes. Got it.

[guido911]

Here is an open letter from the Knights of Columbus to Biden:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/open-letter-head-knights-columbus/story.aspx?guid=%7BB67FB753-531B-4F41-A9A6-C4987A85902F%7D&dist=hppr

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

I say yank the church's tax-exempt status. Then let's see how much politicking they do.

Which church or parish? Also, if the pastoral letters GAS refers to are coming from Rome, how are you going to stop that?  

Just as an FYI, here is an article re: church tax law that I think is helpful as a general matter.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/cbg/churchlawtax/articles/ask_080606.html


BTW, how come I did not hear this outrage over Father Pleger's endorsement of Obama and his ripping of Hillary Clinton:

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/05/29/hes-baaaack-obama-supporter-rev-michael-pfleger-flogs-hillarys-white-entitlement-on-the-pulpit/

Oh I know why, because he was backing a democrat. []

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by guido911

I disagree with you on this one. The Catholic Church, or any church for that matter, is not some amorphous entity. Churches are comprised of people. These people have opinions on issues based on a belief system. I personally, and I mean personally, see no difference between churches and any other special interest group that vote as a collective for the own interests (i.e. teachers unions and NOW for dems). If it happens that Catholics are so offended by Biden's comments that they turn out to vote against dems, so be it.

You don't see any difference???  Political groups pay taxes.  Churches don't.  That's the difference.

NOW and NAACP are tax exempt organizations. Perhaps in your eyes they are not "political groups" like churches.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by guido911

I disagree with you on this one. The Catholic Church, or any church for that matter, is not some amorphous entity. Churches are comprised of people. These people have opinions on issues based on a belief system. I personally, and I mean personally, see no difference between churches and any other special interest group that vote as a collective for the own interests (i.e. teachers unions and NOW for dems). If it happens that Catholics are so offended by Biden's comments that they turn out to vote against dems, so be it.

You don't see any difference???  Political groups pay taxes.  Churches don't.  That's the difference.

NOW and NAACP are tax exempt organizations. Perhaps in your eyes they are not "political groups" like churches.

NOW and NAACP and similar groups have to be extremely careful about separating money that they use for lobbying efforts and money that they use for non-political purposes.  That money that is used for political purposes is taxed.  From the IRS:

quote:
To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.

I don't know what every organization does, but having worked for an action organization, they generally set up a separate corporation to receive political donations & expenditures, independent of its other activities.  I'm sure that some organizations are better than others, but the IRS frequently looks into the organizations to make sure they are not intermixing money.

If churches wanted to set up a similar arrangement, and pay taxes on the money that is used for political purposes, I would have no problem with that.

[guido911]

Catholic Pro-Life ad:

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/20/what-do-you-think-of-this-catholic-ad/

Very powerful.