Huge planning failure by everyone involved

[MDepr2007]

quote:Originally posted by marc

All the naysayers who said Tulsa couldn't fill an arena must be surprised by the crowds at The Eagles, American Idol and Get Motivated events. It seems to me that the heavy traffic was just another sign of success.

The arena has yet to be filled as in everyseat sold.
Eagles had 14,000 something, the motivation seminar was 16,000 something.
I'm sure someday they'll get all 18,000 to 20,000 but it hasn't happened yet...

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by MDepr2007

quote:Originally posted by marc

All the naysayers who said Tulsa couldn't fill an arena must be surprised by the crowds at The Eagles, American Idol and Get Motivated events. It seems to me that the heavy traffic was just another sign of success.

The arena has yet to be filled as in everyseat sold.
Eagles had 14,000 something, the motivation seminar was 16,000 something.
I'm sure someday they'll get all 18,000 to 20,000 but it hasn't happened yet...

14000 for the Eagles as the configuration was for the arena is sold out.

I heard there were near 18000 for the seminar.

American Idols I heard was near sold out if not sold out (14000 or a little more).  Look for some of the posts saying it was difficult to find more than a couple of seats at a time not occupied.

Wait for Celine; she's the first center stage act with the 19000 configuration.  Somehow I'm betting that's a sellout.

[marc]

quote:Originally posted by MDepr2007

quote:Originally posted by marc

All the naysayers who said Tulsa couldn't fill an arena must be surprised by the crowds at The Eagles, American Idol and Get Motivated events. It seems to me that the heavy traffic was just another sign of success.

The arena has yet to be filled as in everyseat sold.
Eagles had 14,000 something, the motivation seminar was 16,000 something.
I'm sure someday they'll get all 18,000 to 20,000 but it hasn't happened yet...

As Hoss noted, The Eagles was definitely a sold out show, all the local media outlets covered it. The tickets were gone in just a few hours, and there were many complaints that scalpers had bought a portion of them.

Newschannel 8 reported that American Idols was sold out on the night of the show, but perhaps that was inaccurate.

[cmoreno]

the tulsa oilers are doing everything they can to break the CHL record for the most fans @ an opening season game.  ...so i expect oct. 25th to be sold out as well.

...i guess it's because i came to the 'get motivated' event just before lunch, but i had no trouble finding parking at the city hall lot (the two parking garages around the arena were both full), walked over to the bok center, had a great time there, was really excited to see all those people there,
listened to a few speakers,
left before 4,
had no problems at all.
(cept i'll say that the event ITSELF & the 'get motivated' people may have been motivated but they were not very good at telling people where to go, what to do, what the event was all about, where to find info, etc.  ...i'm glad i got to see joe montana and zig ziglar speak, but the rest seemed like an infomercial for some useless mlm real estate get rich quick scam).

went to an after-party at baxter's tho.  that was a blast.  i got to meet a lot of cool tulsa business people and entrepreneurs / small business folks.  that was a lot more motivating.

[Conan71]

According to Six In The Morning, about eight people got their cars towed for parking on private property Monday morning.  One lady they interviewed was blaming her poor parking choice on the city.

Nothing like personal responsibility and common sense ma'am.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by joiei


To talk about the parking problem, if more downtown workers rode the bus that would free up parking for events.  Think about it.  It sounds like everyone wants to blame the event,  but maybe everyone will start to rethink how they transport to downtown on a regular basis.  If there is more parking for daytime events maybe there would be more downtown events during the day and more people downtown to liven up the streets and more stores opening because there are more people walking around taking in the sights and shopping.  What was it like in the old days that everyone waxes so poetic about.  I would bet lots of traffic, very few parking spaces, lots of people walking around, lots of stores doing business with those people mingleing around.  Was there all that surface parking that we see now,  I have a feeling not.  How did you Tulsans deal with that aspect back then?    

That's a good point.  As a matter of fact those people who drive themselves to work downtown get in my way when I try to go around the IDL to get to work.  So if they're going to complain I get to complain.

[izmophonik]

According to material handed out at the grand openening the BOk Center can hold up to 22,000 depending on where the stage is located on the floor.  Obviously if the stage is towards one end of the floor you won't be able to sell seats behind the stage.  Alternatively, if the stage is in the center of the floor you can sell every seat.  I think in all there were about 5 different stage configurations seating anywhere from 14,000 - 22,000.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by inteller

so what I want to know is, who is at fault, and when are they getting fired?  I don't want to hear any bull**** about "growing pains" or "working the kinks out"  They had months notice on this.

Da mare is directly responsible for this debacle.  She has authority to plan for this kind of crap.  Thank goodness there was no major medical emergencies in the fubar parts of downtown.  The planning negligence exposed the city to liability today.

What is even MORE insulting is putting the downtown workers in direct competition for parking with attendees.  I can just imagine how the conversation went:

"Hi, we are Zig Zigler motivational speaker series and we will be in your region late Sept, but we can only visit your podunk town on a Monday instead of a weekend"

Mare's office:  "Ok, but we need you to start at 8 because if all of the naysayers get downtown at 9 and find all of the good parking taken they will make us look bad"

Ziglar:  "No problem!  In fact we will do one better, we will go until 4:45 so we can unleash our 18000 motivated individuals on your pissed off workforce for rush hour traffic"

Mare's office:  "EXCELLENT!"

Question: were you downtown yesterday?  Because I was and the traffic at 8:00 AM and 5:00 PM was minimal.  I drove up Boston, like every day, and it was no different for a Monday.  Parked in my usual garage, went by the office, and then took the five minute walk to the arena.  

The issue was people not knowing where to go downtown (wanting parking spots at the arena, I guess) and other folks not paying attention.  That said, I had another event to go to last night nearby and they event sent us am email warning about the traffic after the BOk event.  The result was I parked a block further from that event than normal.

So, as a person who works downtown, attended the event, and had to deal with the effects as someone who had to navigate around the traffic, the disruption was MINIMAL.

For what it's work, they ran a shuttle from Eastland Mall to the event yesterday.  When I called to get my tickets, they actually warned me about the parking.

You are talking out your donkey with blinders on.  It is a FACT that it was a traffic nightmare downtown....don't try and ignore all the news stories.  John Bolton and the rest of the donkey talkers need to be FIRED.  That ****er had the gall to say "we needed to get one of these under our belt"  That is like saying everyone need to have a hot poker shoved up their donkey at least once.

How am I talking out my patootie, dear sir?  I work downtown.  I spend a lot of my free time in downtown.  I run through downtown on the weekends.  Point being: I have a good feel for what is going on downtown.

I asked you a question.  Were you downtown Monday?  No need to be a jackass in your response.  I was there and in my opinion it wasn't that bad.  I don't think you have very good first hand information.   There is too much hyperbole in your argument here to actually have a grasp for what really happened.

Traffic east of Denver wasn't that bad.  I got downtown at 7:30 or so Monday and it wasn't that big of a deal.  I parked where I normally park and it wasn't a big deal at all.

I think the haters in this thread protest too much.  Having to walk a few blocks is about as far as you can get from having a hot coal shoved into your body cavity.  (Is there something about being on the losing side of an argument that forces the losing side on here to make references to invasions of the anus?  Because I count about three such references.)  If anything, walking the few blocks is GOOD for you and Lord knows this city needs more exercise.


People do need to read the paper or somehow otherwise inform themselves of events taking place in downtown.  This is going to happen from time to time.  Heck, it already happens: living and working near downtown, I've been inconvenienced by dozens of community events, most notably parades and runs that block off large blocks of the city.  I've taken the initiative to try to better inform myself of these events.  Every once in awhile, I miss one, and while I might moan about it if I'm in a hurry, I don't make a freaking constitutional case out of it or make references to anal rape on a message board.  

Some of the rhetoric in this thread is so overstated that it pretty much defeats whatever purpose you are advocating.  It wasn't that bad.  Get over it.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by joiei

I wasn't downtown during the clusterf--k, but I have lived and worked in the financial district  of San Francisco, worked in downtown Portland before their fancy new trolleys, worked in downtown New Orleans.  In New Orleans when something big like the Bayou Classic or Mardi Gras or the Superbowl was happening, everybody knew it might take more time so we allowed extra travel time.  I used the busses in order to get there and was never late and they had not special lanes or routes to take
. We, as downtown workers just dealt with it.  It is a learning curve and the downtown workers need to get used to sharing downtown with visitors.  Downtown is not your private enclave, get over yourselves.

To talk about the parking problem, if more downtown workers rode the bus that would free up parking for events.  Think about it.  It sounds like everyone wants to blame the event,  but maybe everyone will start to rethink how they transport to downtown on a regular basis.  If there is more parking for daytime events maybe there would be more downtown events during the day and more people downtown to liven up the streets and more stores opening because there are more people walking around taking in the sights and shopping.  What was it like in the old days that everyone waxes so poetic about.  I would bet lots of traffic, very few parking spaces, lots of people walking around, lots of stores doing business with those people mingleing around.  Was there all that surface parking that we see now,  I have a feeling not.  How did you Tulsans deal with that aspect back then?    

No one needs to be fired.  You all are so spoiled rotten.  You need to rethink about your relation to downtown and to your job.  If Downtown is to become active and alive then you need to let go and make some changes yourselves.  If there becomes a demand for daytime events during the week downtown I say Hurrah.  To demand that events be scheduled around your schedules is so out of it.  

By the way, I do go downtown on a regular basis.  I am always amazed that there is not more traffic or people or life in downtown.  To compare downtown Tulsa to downtown New Orleans just doesn't work, tulsa is like a ghost town compared to New Orleans.  

I like your attitude about downtown. As one of the geezers let me comment on how it was and provide insight as to how it could be. A lot of things have changed.

I attended the high school downtown where PSO has their offices now. I worked for Cities when the BOK tower was being built. There were more needs for parking then than now. We had about 75,000 using downtown in the late 60's. A combination of 2800 students, lots of retail businesses, oil workers, lawyers and government folks. That dropped to around 60,000 when I worked at Cities in the 70's. Its laughable that you people can't handle 30,000 without such a frenzy.

Busses were used more heavily. I didn't always drive to work or school because of parking difficulties or the prohibitive cost of gasl. and a parking garage. Since that time at least two parking garages have been demolished. My bet is the others are pricey. Across from PSO and next to the church were good ones.

My younger fellow workers lived nearby in older neighborhoods because we were lowly paid fresh college grads. Near northside, 15th & Peoria, Hillcrest were affordable and served by main bus lines. I lived at Archer & Independence. Today, college grads are buying homes in the burbs with a lot more money in their pockets than we had. They also don't have much patience with public transportation.

We had a more accomodating view of downtown life. Like Joie, we made stuff work. We didn't leave the downtown area during the day, we took the bus, we came to work early and plugged meters hourly, we got tickets and paid them, we parked in abandoned business lots (and they didn't care) and we walked a lot. And we loved it a lot too. I don't remember so much whining as now.

ps. Because I'm bored and just remembered. East of the high school, 7th street ran into an area that had been cleared of homes to make way for what would become the east leg of the IDL. It was the western edge of Central Park. Many businessmen and students would park there free and walk to work. Hundreds. Beebe Parking co. was nearby as well as the downtown tag agent. Very visible area.

This event sticks in my memory. We walked down to our cars one afternoon to find all the hoods were raised. You could open hoods on any car from the outside then. The gas filler doors were open too. Someone who was very organized and had trucks, had stolen every single battery in the lot and most of the gasoline! In broad daylight and with out fear of capture. Why? Because big players like Beebe Parking, Storey Wrecker and the city of Tulsa didn't like losing any part of their cash cow to free parking. Parking fees, parking tickets, towing fees were being avoided. There was a traffic jam that night and parking revenues for established players was restored.

[Hometown]

San Francisco is famous for its lack of parking but I can think of "dedicated parking" or "nearby parking that was always available" for all of their downtown venues.  Their new ballpark has dedicated parking.  Their Moscone Convention Center has dedicated parking.  Even Macy's at Union Square was close to paid parking on O'Farrell that was always available.

Now we can talk about what people "should" do.  Heck in 1975 we should have worn sweaters and adjusted the thermostat but Jimmy Carter soon learned what Ronald Reagan knew -- people don't like change.

I don't mind walking a few blocks but I do not like not knowing where I am going to park.  I want to know there will be a space for me somewhere -- guaranteed.

For folks that haven't been downtown since the oil companies left let me tell you -- we've got space to spare downtown.  So don't tell me it's not possible to add parking.  And don't tell me all the events are going to be set for night.  What good is that?  We need that place filled with business at all hours as often as possible.

Someone said we cut parking on the Arena to get a lower price tag so that voters would approve it.  Whatever the reasons, let's get rid of any possible problems now, while the gettings good.

Let's plan and build parking for the Arena and the Ball Park.

Why don't we make some changes to traffic flow so that people that come downtown for the Arena will have a good time.  Downtown regulars will have a good time.  And everyone will be back tomorrow with pockets full of money to spend downtown.

Anyway, don't you love the TulsaWorld?  Any criticism, no matter how tame, automatically qualifies you as a naysayer.  Well guess what you are TulsaWorld -- An Apologist.  You were invented to provide excuses for the status quo when it messes up.  You aren't a newspaper.  You are an excuse.

[Gold]

I think the World is really critical of a lot of things, ranging from highways, to infrastructure, to election endorsements.  Sure, they have their interests.  I'm just glad we have a locally owned paper still.  But, I don't think they are an apologist for the status quo.

As for the topic of parking, the best model I've seen is Memphis.  They've built several "dual use" parking structures; they are used by workers during the day and visitors at night.

Now, depending on where you are going -- ballpark, arena, Beale Street -- you might have to walk a few blocks.

A lot of the criticism I see related to parking for the arena never gets around the fact that walk is a neccesity in a downtown.  It's not really that bad.  Even when I had a job downtown with no free parking attached to it, it wasn't really that bad.  People in Oklahoma basically need to get a grip when it comes to walking.  It's good for you and the distances downtown aren't really that bad.

You want to see bad?  Go to a Dallas Cowboys game at Texas stadium, crossing a highway and under an overpass.  That's dangerous.  Crossing a few blocks with intersections and lights is NOTHING.

Then again, so many of the complainers are those who aren't going to the arena for events.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by Gold


Now, depending on where you are going -- ballpark, arena, Beale Street -- you might have to walk a few blocks.

What?  I'm out.

Actually, I had to go to the Courthouse during the event.  I had to park at 7th and Cinci.  I think that is a 6 block walk.  Not the end of the world by any means.

Also consider the market.  Given that there was no demand for more structured parking little has been built recently (one new garage).  As demand grows the incentive to build more OR open up more of what is there (to pay by the day) will also grow.

Now, ask me again in February when I walk 6 blocks and it's freezing. [^]

[Gold]

You know, they sell these things called coats you can wear when it's cold.  You'll have to spend some money, but I promise you, they are valuable and can be re-used many, many times.  []

Seriously, though, the walking isn't that bad.  This has more to do with the mindset of some Oklahomans that demands we have parking next to every single destination.  I have the same trouble in my business -- some clients complain about parking downtown constantly.  I guess we could move next to a highway and have a big lot next door, but that might actually hurt the product we deliver.  Most of lot of what we do happens downtown.  Makes more sense to be here.

[TUalum0982]

so you guys/gals had to walk a couple of blocks and got stuck in traffic.  Who cares?? Think of it this way, you are killing two birds with one stone.  You are exercising while going to whatever event you paid money to and are probably looking forward to it.

Seriously, go to NY where it costs 45 dollars a day to park, and you walk 10-15 blocks or take the subway.  It took us 2.5 hrs to go 6 miles in lower Manhattan.  

A couple of months ago, everyone on this forum was *****ing how there was too much surface parking, and now some of the same people are *****ing that they were stuck in traffic and incovienced because they had to park a couple of blocks away.  Some of the people on this forum, need to rethink their priorities in ilfe.  If this is your biggest concern, you should really rethink or reexamine your priorities.

I live at 111th and hwy 75 and left about 725 to get to the event.  We parked in the one oak parking garage, walked a couple of blocks and still managed to get into the BOK center about 5 minutes before the event started.  If you know where to park downtown and are familiar with the area you shouldn't have had any problems at all getting to the event on time.  Alot of people seemed to have had the philosophy of "I must follow the exact highway signs, or I won't get there", which is total BS.  There are several diff ways to get to the same place, but as we encountered on Mon, they all used the same damn route!!

[carltonplace]

I think we should build several more stacked parking structures downtown. At least one by TCC, one in Blue Dome and maybe one in the Brady or by the PAC. As long as they are mixed use parking and retail