Shooting wolves from planes....

[pmcalk]

The Humane society today took the unprecedented step of endorsing Barack Obama for president.  Never before has the group endorsed a presidential candidate, but the decision of McCain to choose Palin, who supports shooting wolfs from planes and helicopters and who as governor paid $150 bounty for the forearm of dead wolves, forced them to take a position.

quote:While McCain's positions on animal protection have been lukewarm, his choice of running mate cemented our decision to oppose his ticket. Gov. Sarah Palin's (R-Alaska) retrograde policies on animal welfare and conservation have led to an all-out war on Alaska's wolves and other creatures. Her record is so extreme that she has perhaps done more harm to animals than any other current governor in the United States.

Palin engineered a campaign of shooting predators from airplanes and helicopters, in order to artificially boost the populations of moose and caribou for trophy hunters. She offered a $150 bounty for the left foreleg of each dead wolf as an economic incentive for pilots and aerial gunners to kill more of the animals, even though Alaska voters had twice approved a ban on the practice. This year, the issue was up again for a vote of the people, and Palin led the fight against it -- in fact, she helped to spend $400,000 of public funds to defeat the initiative.

Personally, animal rights is not one of my big issues.  But I do wonder what sort of affect this might have, especially combined with the Defenders of Wildlife ad:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQobIUE1zTU

[RecycleMichael]

It is just hard to believe that she offered cash to hunters to shoot wolves from planes.

Hunting from a plane...man...I thought I was lazy.

[Double A]

It's wolves, not wolfs, btw.

[Conan71]

More stories from the unenlightened left press.  It helps to understand about the culture and understand what drives tourism.  FAIK, organized predator extermination is common to every state in this country.

[Gaspar]

I'm going to post this again for the dufuses that did not get it the first time.  I expect this topic will pop up once a week.

Most of your aerial gunning in Alaska is done by the government. They do issue permits to hunters, but they are very hard to get and highly prized.  When the wolf population begins to threaten the lives of citizens they do offer bounties.

High concentrations of wolves have devastated the Moose, Caribou, and a number of other ENDANGERED species. In some parts of Alaska, the wolves have completely eradicated multiple species of foragers.

Hunting from land in such rough terrain is completely ineffective.

So the question for you is do you want the wolves, or the carabu, moose, deer, elk, otter, yellow billed loon, Canadian Linx, racoon, fisher, mink, sitka deer, mountain goat, dall sheep, pika, hare, rabbit, hoary marmot, woodchuck, artic squirrel, beaver, and cuddly little kitty cat, or do you just want wolves and bears?

Wolves do not regulate their own population very well because they've evolved with a very wide range of food sources, just like dogs, they have evolved with humans and human intervention is a natural part of their system.

Leave a wolf population to flourish without a human predator, and they will kill everything before their population ever starts to decrease.

Come on. Who did not learn this stuff in high-school?

[tim huntzinger]

t

quote:Originally posted by Double A

It's wolves, not wolfs, btw.

Wolves, not WOOOOFUSES.

'Sarah Palin can deal with Ahmed-de-nut-job and Hugo Chavez in one day, and still have time to make woofusburgers for her family for dinner.'

[cks511]

Geesus....de ja vu....LOL

Don't take it personally PM.  There should be a drive-by from IP and Crash any minute.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

I'm going to post this again for the dufuses that did not get it the first time.  I expect this topic will pop up once a week.

Most of your aerial gunning in Alaska is done by the government. They do issue permits to hunters, but they are very hard to get and highly prized.  When the wolf population begins to threaten the lives of citizens they do offer bounties.

High concentrations of wolves have devastated the Moose, Caribou, and a number of other ENDANGERED species. In some parts of Alaska, the wolves have completely eradicated multiple species of foragers.

Hunting from land in such rough terrain is completely ineffective.

So the question for you is do you want the wolves, or the carabu, moose, deer, elk, otter, yellow billed loon, Canadian Linx, racoon, fisher, mink, sitka deer, mountain goat, dall sheep, pika, hare, rabbit, hoary marmot, woodchuck, artic squirrel, beaver, and cuddly little kitty cat, or do you just want wolves and bears?

Wolves do not regulate their own population very well because they've evolved with a very wide range of food sources, just like dogs, they have evolved with humans and human intervention is a natural part of their system.

Leave a wolf population to flourish without a human predator, and they will kill everything before their population ever starts to decrease.

Come on. Who did not learn this stuff in high-school?

As I said before, unlike some people, I really don't get all up in arms about animal rights issues.  But to be clear, the reason that they shoot the wolves is to ensure there is adequate moose for the hunters.  This is according to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game:

quote:
In these areas, wolf numbers will be temporarily reduced, but wolves will not be permanently eliminated from any area. Successful programs allow humans to take more moose, and healthy populations of wolves to continue to thrive in Alaska.

http://www.hunt.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wolf.control

Shooting one animal from the air so that you'll have more of another animal to shoot.  I get it--hunting is a huge industry in Alaska.  I just think it will turn off some of the soccer moms.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by cks511

Geesus....de ja vu....LOL

Don't take it personally PM.  There should be a drive-by from IP and Crash any minute.

Apparently these local guys aren't in synch with the Alaskan population who twice banned the practice. I guess their high school didn't teach them either Gas. It took Palin and public funds to defeat the initiative.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

As I said before, unlike some people, I really don't get all up in arms about animal rights issues.  But to be clear, the reason that they shoot the wolves is to ensure there is adequate moose for the hunters.  This is according to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game:

That's one way of interpreting that quote...

What you fail to account for are the significant segments of people groups in Alaska that depend on having enough game to survive.  There are many indiginous groups that still hunt for all of their meat supply.  It's truly about survival for them.  They don't have the luxury of going to the grocery store when they need meat.  Large cities and amenities are the exception, not the norm in many parts of Alaska.

Add on top of that the sprawl of cities which now encroach on the natural habitat of wolves, pushing them into areas where they wouldn't naturally inhabit.  This also upsets the balance.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

As I said before, unlike some people, I really don't get all up in arms about animal rights issues.  But to be clear, the reason that they shoot the wolves is to ensure there is adequate moose for the hunters.  This is according to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game:

That's one way of interpreting that quote...

What you fail to account for are the significant segments of people groups in Alaska that depend on having enough game to survive.  There are many indiginous groups that still hunt for all of their meat supply.  It's truly about survival for them.  They don't have the luxury of going to the grocery store when they need meat.  Large cities and amenities are the exception, not the norm in many parts of Alaska.

Add on top of that the sprawl of cities which now encroach on the natural habitat of wolves, pushing them into areas where they wouldn't naturally inhabit.  This also upsets the balance.

Good point. From the US Census. Those who make less than $24,999 comprise 21% of the Alaskan population. The average household income is around $52,000. American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent, 2006 (a)  15.4%

Those who make their living off of farming, hunting, fishing etc. only account for 1.5% of jobs. 75% of employment is in professional, sales, management. It looks doubtful they would be doing it for the tourists.

A prosperous state but not a bell curve of income.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

As I said before, unlike some people, I really don't get all up in arms about animal rights issues.  But to be clear, the reason that they shoot the wolves is to ensure there is adequate moose for the hunters.  This is according to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game:

That's one way of interpreting that quote...

What you fail to account for are the significant segments of people groups in Alaska that depend on having enough game to survive.  There are many indiginous groups that still hunt for all of their meat supply.  It's truly about survival for them.  They don't have the luxury of going to the grocery store when they need meat.  Large cities and amenities are the exception, not the norm in many parts of Alaska.

Add on top of that the sprawl of cities which now encroach on the natural habitat of wolves, pushing them into areas where they wouldn't naturally inhabit.  This also upsets the balance.

Good point. From the US Census. Those who make less than $24,999 comprise 21% of the Alaskan population. The average household income is around $52,000. American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent, 2006 (a)  15.4%

Those who make their living off of farming, hunting, fishing etc. only account for 1.5% of jobs. 75% of employment is in professional, sales, management. It looks doubtful they would be doing it for the tourists.

A prosperous state but not a bell curve of income.

I don't think Inuits fill out census forms, WB.

[waterboy]

Actually, they referred to that. They used oral interviews and relied on the interviewee's self association with race. If he said he was Inuit, then thats what he was. Especially if it meant he got a government or royalty check.[]

[Vision 2025]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

It is just hard to believe that she offered cash to hunters to shoot wolves from planes.

Hunting from a plane...man...I thought I was lazy.

Let's see a Super Cub (the predominate plane used) burns 8.5 gallons per hour x say $5.75 per gallon in Alaska = $48.88 hr for fuel plus maintenance cost of flying at perhaps  1.5 times the fuel (not including capital cost of the aircraft) so say $73.31 per hour for operational costs alone.  Not much of a money maker there, even with the fur price included.

Michael, it is not nearly as easy as it sounds nor are they lazy.  The reason aerial hunting is necessary is due to the vast size of the area involved and the daily range of the species.  I have many friends who fly in the Alaska back country for a living and from talking with them I realized that the conditions there just cannot be understood without first hand knowledge and I would challenge that the Humane Society sitting in their Washington DC offices just has no clue on the issue and is only looking to secure future federal funding from their liberal buddies.  

I wonder how much the society spent on the campaign to ban and how much of that was raised inside of Alaska (bet not much) where I understand the majority of funds that were raised to defeat the issue came from.  

Wildlife and the opportunities a sustainable population of game animals presents are a tremendous value to the entire Alaskan community, weather from tourism to view or go on the hunt of a lifetime or simply to provide valuable meat for the table, why else would Alaska have the strictest regulations against wanton waste of game meat in the US (which they strictly enforce) if they were not interested in the proper and ethical management and use of that resource.  

Lastly, many states utilize aerial predator control, although typically for coyotes.  Here in Oklahoma the Department of agriculture pays a federal department to do it in a rented jet helicopter at an estimated $700 per flight hour.  

Personal comments by,

Kirby Crowe

[FOTD]

"Palin and the (lack of) press: 'Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, who has not held a press conference in nearly four weeks of campaigning, initially barred reporters from her first meetings with world leaders Tuesday, but reversed course after they protested."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26853766/


What a bimbo!


"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
-- Henry Louis Mencken