PlaniTulsa Workshop

[sgrizzle]

One of my table participants was blind. Kid you not. Our facilitator was a nice guy, but not much help.

Saw DoubleA there as well. "Mr Equal Representation" voting twice?

Maybe he registered under his Canadian name, DoubleEh.

[MDepr2007]

Why pre-determined packages and not just packages with everything available?

[Conan71]

It's a 1984 conspiracy, MD.

When they want your opinion, they will give it to you.

[cmoreno]

i was there.
saw william, sarah, michael bates, sgrizzle and his lovely wife, jamie jamieson... so good showing by the tulsa now board!

i loved the process.
the group i was with was AWESOME, and we all really got in to the process and had some great ideas and discussions.  we had 2 residents of n. tulsa, a couple of real estate folks (maybe one of them was a developer?), a dude who works w/ the osage tribe, and me.  'had a lot of fun, and really wish we had more time to discuss, make revisions, and really refine our ideas.

i can't wait to see the compilation of the data.

michael bates took pics of the event and of his table's map.  he very generously agreed to photograph my table's map as well, and i've got that on my flickr account w/ comments about what we discussed.  ...eventually i want to provide more details, and even geocode our areas that we felt need more development / mass transit, etc.

really looking forward to the more detailed meetings and getting involved as this process continues.  so far so good, planiTulsa!

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by MDepr2007

Why pre-determined packages and not just packages with everything available?

The packages presented the facilities needed for a set number of people (I believe 100,000) including shopping, work, and living. If you'll note that required almost 200 75 acre sections with the "continue trends" packet but with the "attract youth" it only needed 135 sections to house and emply the same number of people.

[cmoreno]

sgrizzle:  u must have taken better notes than me.  where did frego get the #s that they based the packets on?

that's one thing that i never understood about yesterday.  who's to say that the population of tulsa will grow by _x_ amount, or that we will be able to attract _x_ jobs?  ...for that matter, what kinds of jobs are those?

[Conan71]

I think there are a lot of gross assumptions which go into long-range planning like this.  For being pro-entrepreneur, the Neighborhood Empowerment packet seemed like it didn't have enough opportunities for ED to me.

The 75 acres required for each type of development becomes daunting when you start looking for space on the map which is not already occupied.  []

Not complaining, it was an interesting exercize and I hope I get to participate more in the future.

[TheArtist]

I think they just too the general trends that have prevailed over the last couple decades and extrapolated out from that. Not just locally but nationally esp considering population numbers and demographics.  I dont think anyone can predict what will exactly happen for Tulsa, but you have to have some place to imagine where you are going. We may lose population for all we know. However, even in that scenario I think a lot of the map designs would end up creating a better city than we have now. Most of the maps seemed to be concerned with infill and redevelopment of older areas within the city.

I personally really liked how in the presentation they pointed out the various housing options that Tulsa has available how it lacks in 2 areas, high end and affordable, urban living. Thought it interesting how some people at my table, not part of the usual TN group, pointed out how they wanted neighborhoods and areas that were mixed income, how those areas would be more interesting and desirable than areas that are of a "single class".

I also heard several groups going about it the way we did. We tried starting in a different manner but kept falling into the situation that we needed to decide first where any mass transit options were going to go. Whether it be BRT or some type of rail. Once you figured that out then it became a lot easier to center redevelopment nodes around the mass transit options and connecting those nodes. Even if you werent going to put in any mass transit immediately, it seemed wisest to focus redevelopment in areas where you would most likely be able to put mass transit in the future.

Our map tended to focus a lot on downtown, areas just north of it and west Tulsa. Then there was a line that went from 21st and Utica along 21st all the way out to the east side with a main street and urban living type node on the east side. We kind of wanted each section of the city N, E, W, and S to have at least one main street/urban type area. A sense of place and identity. A pedestrian friendly place from around which new development could grow and spread. While all the time trying to keep it mixed income, have park and plaza spaces, and connectable to other nodes and downtown.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by cmoreno

sgrizzle:  u must have taken better notes than me.  where did frego get the #s that they based the packets on?

that's one thing that i never understood about yesterday.  who's to say that the population of tulsa will grow by _x_ amount, or that we will be able to attract _x_ jobs?  ...for that matter, what kinds of jobs are those?

That was part of how you picked your packets. If you did "continue trends" you were placing industrial and office parks. "Retain Youth" gave you live/work arrangements and more entrepreneurial focus.

I don't think they were "basing it on numbers" they were were just saying, If tulsa grows by 100,000 people (roughly 50% being local kids, 50% coming from outside of Tulsa) then how should we provide for that growth. Should we build lofts and condos and provide for young and upper class or should be build lots of cheap residential and factories.

[cmoreno]

'guess i might have been trying to read too much in to it and was looking for their research / numbers to back up their theories.

one thing i would be interested in doing is to dust off the work that came out of 'step up tulsa' and see if the numbers, research, demographics, etc. match up w/ what frego' is saying.

thus far it seems that the public has only seen the tip of a huge iceburg of stuff that all the researchers and consultants, etc. are seeing and we get to play with stickers and take surveys.

don't get me wrong, like i have said over and over again i love the process and i think this is great and i really love all the public comments and such that have come from this, i just REALLY want to dig deeper and want to know where i can go to do that.

[Ghostrider84]

I had the pleasure to be at table two. What a great group of positive people who have a real interest in planning Tulsa's future. I really enjoyed our work session. Thanks for such a great experience. Good to see you Conan! Dave Strader, The Pearl District Association, President

[TheArtist]

Wish I had had a more pleasing experience lol. I had some urban planner/professor guy at my table and we ended up getting kind of loud and heated in our exchanges lol. Was about to take that stick and start beating him with it.[B)] The poor facilitator had to stop us a few times to get some order. The urban planner guy ended up looking frustrated and backed off, then worked with a couple of girls to do some stuff around the downtown area. Since I was sitting at the other end of the table towards the west side of the map, me and this one lady kind of just made our own little urban core/node over there lol. Our map was pretty crappy to be honest lol. [xx(]  

Can I have a redo? lol

[sgrizzle]

What was the stick for?

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

What was the stick for?

If the facilitator has a question that is outside of their expertise, they can raise the stick for more assitance.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

What was the stick for?

To beat people who put cra*** development in your neighborhood.[]