TMAPC members terms expiring

[PonderInc]

I noticed today that the terms of 3 TMAPC members will expire in January 2009.  What does this mean?  Will three new people take their places, or can they "re-up?"  

What are the ramifications for neighborhoods and people who want the TMAPC to do more than just rubber-stamp PUDs, etc?

http://www.tmapc.org/tmapcmembers.htm

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

I noticed today that the terms of 3 TMAPC members will expire in January 2009.  What does this mean?  Will three new people take their places, or can they "re-up?"  

What are the ramifications for neighborhoods and people who want the TMAPC to do more than just rubber-stamp PUDs, etc?

http://www.tmapc.org/tmapcmembers.htm

They can reup if they are willing and the Mare(with Council approval)/County is willing to put them up for renomination. I like to see two of those TMAPC members ride off into the sunset, I'll let you guess which ones they are.

Of course, I'd like to see the TMAPC replaced by a Tulsa Planning Commission by then, but that's probably just wishful thinking.

[sgrizzle]

I think someone who has served since 84, 25 years, might need to be rotated for freshness. I don't want them making the same choices they did in 84.

[VikingPoke]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I think someone who has served since 84, 25 years, might need to be rotated for freshness. I don't want them making the same choices they did in 84.

there will be a big push to NOT get Carnes renewwed.  His is a county appointee but I think the city council will apply pressure.  Carnes is a dinosaur that needs to go.  People say that the Comp Plan is outdated...well here is someone who has been around almost as long as the comp plan.  Too bad the same house cleaning cant be done at INCOG.

The county should appoint another person like Liz Wright.

Um, no... they shouldn't.

[PonderInc]

Has anyone heard any more about new appointments to fill these seats?  Is everyone just going to "re-up?"  Who appoints people from the county, anyway?

[LongtimeTulsan]

The county appointees, Carnes, Sparks, Wright, are all suppose to live in the district of the county commissioner who appointed them. Sparks and Wright live in District 3 and 2 respectively. Carnes works in 1 but doesn't live there.

The City appointees have to be approved by the mayor. The majority of them live between 21st and 41st. Meaning there is no representation from the North, East, West or South part of town. Anyone think there might be a connection between the type of development and location?? Is it possible there would be better citizen representation on the TMAPC if not all members were from the core of midtown and WEREN'T involved with real estate?

[akupetsky]

I hear that Chip Ard resigned, and that Gail Carnes was reappointed.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by akupetsky

I hear that Chip Ard resigned, and that Gail Carnes was reappointed.

there was a lobbying effort to get rid of that dinosaur but he has his own rubber stamp down at the Tulsa County offices.

very interesting news that Ard resigned.  I guess he just couldn't get used to that slimy feeling.

[Limabean]

It seems that more and more development decisions are being made without respecting the concerns of the resident taxpayer/property owner.
If the city continues to appoint people that rubberstamp these ever-increasing unpopular development projects then the city will have to deal with the escalating fallout.
Liz Wright asks some very difficult questions of TMAPC applicants which may not be popular with the development community.
It is good someone is asking some questions before we all end up with office buildings or 3 story apartment buildings in our backyards.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Limabean

It seems that more and more development decisions are being made without respecting the concerns of the resident taxpayer/property owner.
If the city continues to appoint people that rubberstamp these ever-increasing unpopular development projects then the city will have to deal with the escalating fallout.
Liz Wright asks some very difficult questions of TMAPC applicants which may not be popular with the development community.
It is good someone is asking some questions before we all end up with office buildings or 3 story apartment buildings in our backyards.

nothing provides more entertainment than to watch scumdog developers squirm when Liz Wright grills them.

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by Limabean

It is good someone is asking some questions before we all end up with office buildings or 3 story apartment buildings in our backyards.

Welcome to infill! It's actually very smart growth, as it greatly increases the tax base without greatly increasing infrastructure costs.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

quote:Originally posted by Limabean

It is good someone is asking some questions before we all end up with office buildings or 3 story apartment buildings in our backyards.

Welcome to infill! It's actually very smart growth, as it greatly increases the tax base without greatly increasing infrastructure costs.

I question how smart the Cherry Street infill growth has been. The developer over there noted on a KOTV public relations piece today that 75% of the area has changed since she began carving it up. Like that was a good thing. Affordable rental homes and period quad apartments were deigned "POS" properties and destroyed in favor of quarter million dollar modern/contemporary "starter homes" and soon to come Arvest style commercial crap. But strangely, they left the lime green car wash and the 60's POS apartment complexes that house the areas best drug exchange operations.[]

I drive down the street each morning and the multiple empty store fronts from Peoria to Lewis says a lot. New Years activity was good but we ate at one of the restaurants there last night and I can attest that at 7:30pm, the new and improving Cherry Street was sparsely populated and sickly.

My prediction that they would kill the goose laying the golden eggs is coming true. High rents, franchise restaurants, narrow demographics, belated road improvements and a general feeling that South Tulsa style is being forced upon an older area is taking its toll. Here's the difference- Cherry Street served a mixed neighborhood with amenities that suited its personality; Cherry Street bakery, Arnie's Bar, Piggly Wiggly, a laundramat, some very personable and varied bar/restaurants, art galleries, and antique stores. All of them were small, local entreprenuers who emanated from the surrounding areas. Contrast with now- Panera, Quizno's, Qdoba, Camilles, Lime green car wash, huge expanses of land awaiting new style lofts with no greater density than before. South Tulsa stuff.

Thats not to say that there aren't great restaurants, bars and businesses over there but they are being overlooked in this new shuffle. For instance TeKei's is good, but it replaced a perfectly adorable depression era courtyard apartment complex that if rehabbed would have added more tax base and charm to the area. The White Owl is a good place and so is the Palace, Full Moon has its niche and I like KilKenny's.

Overall however, it has been infill growth that didn't add to its identity, it destroyed it.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

quote:Originally posted by Limabean

It is good someone is asking some questions before we all end up with office buildings or 3 story apartment buildings in our backyards.

Welcome to infill! It's actually very smart growth, as it greatly increases the tax base without greatly increasing infrastructure costs.

I question how smart the Cherry Street infill growth has been. The developer over there noted on a KOTV public relations piece today that 75% of the area has changed since she began carving it up. Like that was a good thing. Affordable rental homes and period quad apartments were deigned "POS" properties and destroyed in favor of quarter million dollar modern/contemporary "starter homes" and soon to come Arvest style commercial crap. But strangely, they left the lime green car wash and the 60's POS apartment complexes that house the areas best drug exchange operations.[]

I drive down the street each morning and the multiple empty store fronts from Peoria to Lewis says a lot. New Years activity was good but we ate at one of the restaurants there last night and I can attest that at 7:30pm, the new and improving Cherry Street was sparsely populated and sickly.

My prediction that they would kill the goose laying the golden eggs is coming true. High rents, franchise restaurants, narrow demographics, belated road improvements and a general feeling that South Tulsa style is being forced upon an older area is taking its toll. Here's the difference- Cherry Street served a mixed neighborhood with amenities that suited its personality; Cherry Street bakery, Arnie's Bar, Piggly Wiggly, a laundramat, some very personable and varied bar/restaurants, art galleries, and antique stores. All of them were small, local entreprenuers who emanated from the surrounding areas. Contrast with now- Panera, Quizno's, Qdoba, Camilles, Lime green car wash, huge expanses of land awaiting new style lofts with no greater density than before. South Tulsa stuff.

Thats not to say that there aren't great restaurants, bars and businesses over there but they are being overlooked in this new shuffle. For instance TeKei's is good, but it replaced a perfectly adorable depression era courtyard apartment complex that if rehabbed would have added more tax base and charm to the area. The White Owl is a good place and so is the Palace, Full Moon has its niche and I like KilKenny's.

Overall however, it has been infill growth that didn't add to its identity, it destroyed it.

+1

I hope you will make it to the PlaniTulsa Forest Orchard/Hillcrest/Cherry St. small area workshop on January 26 and share your concerns to hopefully protect against this crap for future development in the area.

[carltonplace]

The Utica Manor apartments were great, there were a lot of young people living there and they didn't need that much work to update them.

I'm with you waterboy, what's happening on Cherry Street and just to the north is a shame.

[waterboy]

I haven't had time or energy to participate in this process, but I will try to make that meeting. Does anyone really listen though?