Petitions and the BOK Center

[TheTed]

There was a woman outside the BOK Center on the big gathering area in front who was trying to get people to sign the HOPE petition today during the Oilers open house.

She was asked to leave the property by BOK Center personnel. Is this legal? I would think the arena would be considered public property and she would be allowed to gather signatures.

The policy is spelled out on the BOK Center website.

quote:  The distribution of promotional items, handbills, flyers, pamphlets, printed materials, as well as the solicitation of signatures, is not permitted on BOK Center property without prior written authorization from SMG.

BOK Center

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by TheTed

There was a woman outside the BOK Center on the big gathering area in front who was trying to get people to sign the HOPE petition today during the Oilers open house.

She was asked to leave the property by BOK Center personnel. Is this legal? I would think the arena would be considered public property and she would be allowed to gather signatures.

The policy is spelled out on the BOK Center website.

quote:  The distribution of promotional items, handbills, flyers, pamphlets, printed materials, as well as the solicitation of signatures, is not permitted on BOK Center property without prior written authorization from SMG.

BOK Center

Yeah, I think that is pretty sketchy....along with the fact that a private entity, American Parking, gets to issue private parking and moving violations in a municipal parking garage to pad their coffers.  I can't wait until someone challenges one of those citations in court.  It would be like wal-mart issuing you a ticket for not properly storing your shopping cart after use.[}:)]

[Wrinkle]

A private company issuing public policy should be of big concern. This is a matter for our Council, who should probably limit stuff like this to the exterior of the building.

[sgrizzle]

She can collect petitions on the city sidewalk but outside the door is still technically private property. I talked to the woman who was gathering signatures the night of the eagles concert for an hour. She was there all night and never asked to leave. Likely the night where the woman was told to leave was because someone complained or she was hindering traffic flow.

[TheTed]

She was pretty close to the curb, near the corner of 3rd and Denver on the edge of the plaza area. There was no possible way she was hindering traffic flow. There were only a few people at a time on that huge plaza area.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

She can collect petitions on the city sidewalk but outside the door is still technically private property. I talked to the woman who was gathering signatures the night of the eagles concert for an hour. She was there all night and never asked to leave. Likely the night where the woman was told to leave was because someone complained or she was hindering traffic flow.

SMG is wrong.

Standing on the public sidewalk is a Free-Speech zone.

You can stand there; collect petition signatures; hold a hand-sign up signifying your opinion; and, probably talk back to the voices in your head, too.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

A private company issuing public policy should be of big concern. This is a matter for our Council, who should probably limit stuff like this to the exterior of the building.

Why?  It's the same as a supermarket with signs that say 'no loitering'.  Is the arena exempt from that?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

A private company issuing public policy should be of big concern. This is a matter for our Council, who should probably limit stuff like this to the exterior of the building.

Why?  It's the same as a supermarket with signs that say 'no loitering'.  Is the arena exempt from that?

Wrong on two counts:

1) It's a PUBLIC Sidewalk.

2) The Sidewalk abuts a public facility.

SMG certainly can prevent people from demonstrating or handing out literature INSIDE the Arena.

Free speech is protected on the Public Sidewalk.  For instance, at local abortion clinics, the anti-abortion protestors must stay on the Sidewalk, and cannot enter onto the private property where the clinic is located.  Look for them every weekend.

And, just wait until some sharp civil rights attorney like Louis Bullock or Greg Bledsoe sniffs out this unconstitutional abridgement of our First Amendment rights.

Expect an expensive lawsuit against the City of Tulsa.

Mr. Bledsoe occasionally posts in this Forum.  

Perhaps he will comment on SMG's action..........

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

A private company issuing public policy should be of big concern. This is a matter for our Council, who should probably limit stuff like this to the exterior of the building.

Why?  It's the same as a supermarket with signs that say 'no loitering'.  Is the arena exempt from that?

Wrong on two counts:

1) It's a PUBLIC Sidewalk.

2) The Sidewalk abuts a public facility.

SMG certainly can prevent people from demonstrating or handing out literature INSIDE the Arena.

Free speech is protected on the Public Sidewalk.  For instance, at local abortion clinics, the anti-abortion protestors must stay on the Sidewalk, and cannot enter onto the private property where the clinic is located.  Look for them every weekend.

And, just wait until some sharp civil rights attorney like Louis Bullock or Greg Bledsoe sniffs out this unconstitutional abridgement of our First Amendment rights.

Expect an expensive lawsuit against the City of Tulsa.

Mr. Bledsoe occasionally posts in this Forum.  

Perhaps he will comment on SMG's action..........

Not what I'm talking about, silly quadruped.

If they are up on the entrance to the building, that's NOT public by definition.  On the corner; that's different.

[shadows]

The republic of Rome lasted 47 years before the generals took it over.   Since the 1950’s the republic government of US has been taken over by corporations who control the rights of the people. There is no Public Property as the common people no longer enjoy the freedom of making decisions.  From the moment one step from their home each day, over which is own by the government, (your taxes (rents)) they are subservient to all government entities.   Even inside your building you call home it is subject to their rules.

The right to petition government, granted in US constitution, died in Tulsa with the takeover, converting the downtown to an industrial venture for profit, installed under very restrictive rules. The category in which the arena as public built was converted to Simi-private use.  In some cases the public access is extended from the center of the street to the edge of the property line. In many instances some 18 inches beyond the sidewalk line.

As corporate for profit government continues to develop in the downtown areas there will be many invasions on the rights of the common people who are without resources to protest.

The woman was making an effort to change things.  What are you doing to reestablish your rights?      

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

The republic of Rome lasted 47 years before the generals took it over.   Since the 1950’s the republic government of US has been taken over by corporations who control the rights of the people. There is no Public Property as the common people no longer enjoy the freedom of making decisions.  From the moment one step from their home each day, over which is own by the government, (your taxes (rents)) they are subservient to all government entities.   Even inside their building you call home is subject to their rules.

The right to petition government, granted in US constitution, died in Tulsa with the takeover, converting the downtown to an industrial venture for profit, installed under very restrictive rules. The category in which the arena as public built was converted to Simi-private use.  In some cases the public access is extended from the center of the street to the edge of the property line. In many instances some 18 inches beyond the sidewalk line.

As corporate for profit government continues to develop in the downtown areas there will be many invasions on the rights of the common people who are without resources to protest.

The woman was making an effort to change things.  What are you doing to reestablish your rights?      

Are you saying you would be ok with someone screaming out about a petition from your front porch?  Because that's how I see this.  If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but I hear how this lady was in the entry way just in front of the door to the arena.  That would be synonymous with front porch to me.

If they're out in the street or down on the corner, then they'd have the right granted that they aren't disturbing the public.

[TheTed]

She was probably within 10 feet of the street, much closer to the curb than to the arena. She was told she had to cross the street.

Isn't the BOK Center considered public property? We the taxpayers own it, just as we own the library or the courthouse, correct? As I understand it, you can legally gather signatures outside a library or a courthouse. Why not the arena?

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by TheTed

She was probably within 10 feet of the street, much closer to the curb than to the arena. She was told she had to cross the street.

Isn't the BOK Center considered public property? We the taxpayers own it, just as we own the library or the courthouse, correct? As I understand it, you can legally gather signatures outside a library or a courthouse. Why not the arena?

The city owns the arena, as stated in the package.  The taxpayers paid for it, but the city has ownership.  The city owns the library and the courthouse as well.

If they're talking about the gathering space that's on the Arena's property, that's not city easement, so it would be considered private property.  Telling her to cross the street may have been done to keep her from creeping up on the property discretely.  Who's to say she got permission from SMG?

[shadows]

Hoss:  How can property purchased with public funds, with the citizens of Tulsa providing the source for revenue bonds, using the sales tax shelter by circumventing voting on GO bonds,  Thus justify the taking of the property and calling it private property?  Are we a corporation for CEO’s only?

The corporation of the city of Tulsa’s government is assuming they are above the will of the people.   When we loose the suffrage guarantee that we hail so proudly it is time we look for a solution before we join the people on the half of the planet who are seeking changes in their government.  
 
How would you describe “A government of the people?

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

Hoss:  How can property purchased with public funds, with the citizens of Tulsa providing the source for revenue bonds, using the sales tax shelter by circumventing voting on GO bonds,  Thus justify the taking of the property and calling it private property?  Are we a corporation for CEO’s only?

The corporation of the city of Tulsa’s government is assuming they are above the will of the people.   When we loose the suffrage guarantee that we hail so proudly it is time we look for a solution before we join the people on the half of the planet who are seeking changes in their government.  
 
How would you describe “A government of the people?

Hey dood, I'm just the messenger.  You need to direct your rage someplace else...