New Hotel Proposed Across from Arena

[YoungTulsan]

Wait wait..  I read this thread a week ago and there was a nice rendering of an urban Hotel with structured parking and street level retail.  Now we are talking about a freaking Hampton Inn?

[YoungTulsan]

I sent them some praise:

"RE: Hampton Inn across the street from the arena

Finally, we will get some much needed surface concrete downtown.  Thanks guys, you're the best!"

I wonder if they get sarcasm?

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

I sent them some praise:

"RE: Hampton Inn across the street from the arena

Finally, we will get some much needed surface concrete downtown.  Thanks guys, you're the best!"

I wonder if they get sarcasm?

Young Tulsan:

Thank you for your understanding.  So many Tulsan's don't get what we are trying to do.  Surface parking is the face of downtown Tulsa.  We should build on the amount we already have by tearing down structures that are in our way. The addition of more structures will only hinder this goal.  When/if demand increases enough we hope to raze the BOK center for more parking, I trust we can count on your support.

/s/ Tulsa Development Authority (no, not really)

[TheLofts@120]

For those of you wishing to offer your opinion and comments to the TDA, may I suggest you contact them at their email addresses.  The main TDA email is received by staff and may not get forwarded to them.  Please keep in mind that this is essentially the only place to offer comment as they do not allow public discussion at their meetings.

carl.bracy.acfx@statefarm.com - Chairman
george.shahadi@williams.com - Vice Chair
jclayman@fdlaw.com - Member

Unfortunately I do not have the email addresses for the two newest members but you can contact the TDA offices and request them from the operator, they are on file.  

Paula Bryant Ellis - Member
Julius Magese - Member

[Gaspar]

Channel 8 will have a feature tonight concerning the development.

The TDA and their consultants must have spent a great deal of time and money determining what would be in the best interests of Tulsa, and while we may question their reasoning (and that is our right) we respect their authority.

Mr. Raskin will continue to pursue this project, until it is clear that the project is indeed rejected.  We have received no official word from the TDA, and Mr. Raskin was just assured by a member of the TDA that our proposal is still in play.  

Thank you for all of your kind words and support.

[carltonplace]

Wonder how a Westin and a Hampton Inn will fit on the same block. The peeps at the TDA really do have the magic touch.

[MichaelBates]

For what it's worth, I've seen (and stayed in) some Hampton Inns that are designed to fit well in urban locations: Savannah Historic District; downtown Buffalo; East Aurora, NY. Hampton has also been involved in funding restoration of historic attractions.

The problem is that unlike Savannah, Buffalo, and East Aurora, Tulsa doesn't have design guidelines that would prevent suburban-style development downtown.

[PonderInc]

No matter what project goes in this space, a surface parking lot should not be part of the concept.  (Downtown Tulsa is 40% surface parking already!)

Let's say that it costs $10,000 per parking space to build a parking garage.  If there are 100 events each year that you could fill those spaces and charge $10 to park (and with this location directly across from the arena, it shouldn't be hard).... It would only take 10 years to pay for the parking garage.  After that, you'd be making money on parking!  (I know that this is simplified math, that doesn't include interest payments, management, maintenance, etc, but I just want to make the point.)

Now, if you include (as it should) retail space on the street level of the parking garage... you've got more development, more income, more action and activity on the street, which would increase the value of your hotel.

I can't understand why any developer wouldn't understand this, and want to include it as part of the plan.  

Until Tulsans understand how costly surface parking lots are to the health and welfare of Tulsa, we are going to keep shooting ourselves in the foot... and wondering why downtown development keeps falling short of its potential.

[tulsamatt]

While the Hampton is nowhere near what the first proposal is and definitely not the same brand level as Starwood/ Westin, etc.   The layouts used in the newer downtown Hampton hotels I've stayed in are much better then the "off the highway" ones.

I have stayed at the downtown Hampton's in Denver, New Orleans and Memphis in the last year or so... All newer construction, had structured parking, was able to walk right out the door for food/drinks and seemed to fit in with the surroundings quite well (though I was a worn out business traveler on these trips).  If a Hampton was done like this SOMEWHERE ELSE in downtown I think it would fit.  It would be nice to have another Hilton family hotel for business travelers.

THAT SAID, the concept of using what looks to be the prime spot for a major hotel development next to the arena for it would just be a shame, especially when there seems to be a much better option on the table.  We could really use a Starwood branded hotel, with all the amenities listed in the previous proposal.

On another note, has work started on the Courtyard Marriott?

[tshane250]

It appears that this all boils down to financing.  This site was marketed by Jones, Lang, LaSalle and only two proposals were submitted, the Raskin one and the CSK one, with the latter not requiring outside financing.  So, there are potentially three outcomes, 1) the site sits empty until better economic times, 2) the CSK proposal is a go, or 3) Raskin gets guaranteed financing.  Only time will tell.

[PonderInc]

Here's a quote from the original Tulsa World article at the beginning of this thread:

TDA Chairman Carl Bracy...
"We're really looking at what will be the best fit for that location, and not just for right now, for the next 10, 20 and 30 years," he said, adding that the authority had no time frame for a decision.

"It's not something we're going to rush," he said.

I certainly hope this proves to be true.  The BOK Arena is already garnering attention for it's stunning architecture.  It has become a source of pride to many Tulsans.  It adds a striking and beautiful new dimension to downtown.

If we fail to leverage the arena...if we fail to insist upon excellence for this site, we're going to look like a bunch of hayseeds.  Like a used car salesman with a huge diamond ring...who thinks it looks just fine with his plaid jacket and polyester pants.

According to the article, the TDA is asking for design approval.  Let us hope that they can be convinced of the necessity of good urban design... not just on this prime spot...but throughout downtown.

[TURobY]

Received a response:

quote:
Good evening Robert:

Thank you for your e-mail.  Many details appear to be misunderstood.  TDA is in negotiation to sell the property, there has been an offer and counter-offer but there is not a definitive deal made.  Any deal is subject to TDA's approval of any architecture.  

Your viewpoint is shared by a number of people. I did not participate in the Howard Raskin presentation but I understand that CSK Hotels was deemed to be the more qualified opportunity. If my understanding is correct, the Howard Raskin proposal was apparently just that based upon information supplied by Jones Lang.

The 3rd & Denver property was one of five parcels that the City and TDA agreed to market through a brokerage agreement with the national real estate firm of Jones Lang LaSalle. There was a comprehensive marketing package prepared seeking interest in the development of the 3rd & Denver site that was prominently marketed through a website and direct solicitations by Jones Lang to numerous developers over several months. Jones Lang's marketing efforts resulted in effectively two proposals, one from Howard Raskin and one from CSK Hotels. I'd be the first to admit this was a disappointing response given the belief that engaging Jones Lang would result in substantially more interest on a national scale. For whatever reasons, Jones Lang was unable to deliver a major developer who had interest in 3rd & Denver.

The only other proposal came from CSK Hotels from Fort Smith. TDA has been under criticism from HUD as of late for holding properties in inventory too long. CSK seems to be an active developer with sufficient financial resources to actually do a deal. One of the principals of CSK is a graduate of Cornell's Hotel and Restaurant program. The PowerPoint presentation given of CSK's developments seemed to show they have good taste in the décor of its hotel developments. As part of any deal with CSK, TDA has the right to approve the architecture of the hotel. There was acknowledgement by CSK of the importance of having a hotel that looked upscale given its proximity to the BOK Arena.

I was very surprised to hear the relatively low revenue numbers for hotels in the downtown area (effective room rental rates of $60.00 per day). I don't know if a prestige hotel chain could be located on that site in this economic climate (of untold duration) when there is competition from the newly renovated Crowne Plaza, a soon to be remodeled Mayo and the Doubletree. The economics do not seem to justify a substantial, upscale hotel without substantial subsidies and I do not know where they would come from. In addition, the Mayor wants a large hotel at the former City Hall site and there is discussion of a large hotel at the former BOk drive-in location on Denver.

I don't know if this deal will get done or not but no other qualified proposals have been made on this site and none may be forthcoming in the current economic environment. It is a difficult situation to be in but TDA felt the ability to control the look of the development will help to ensure that the aesthetics of the BOK Arena are not compromised. I would prefer something better but it is has not presented itself nor can we predict if it ever will.

My understanding is that hotel development will be at a virtual standstill given the implosion of the credit market and the future of such financing is unknown.  Who really knows what will happen with this economy?  

CSK advised TDA that it does not need outside financing.   TDA is in a difficult position, and I would have hoped a nationally renowned real estate firm like Jones Lang would have generated a major developer.  It didn't happen.  The City recommended that we pursue this opportunity.

So, do we let the property remain vacant or do we develop the best of what is available?  It's a quandary and we're doing the best we can with few options.  

I look forward to your thoughts and comments. Best personal regards.

John D. Clayman

[bacjz00]

A nice and thoughtful response.

[MDepr2007]

Julius Magese (sp) was just approved for the position. He was on the EDC before then with both appointments via Mayor Taylor. Previously he was on the TAA/TAIT for the airport via Mayor Savage. Oh and he was there during the Great Plaines fiasco.
I am sure though he was put in for this authority position for a greater reason this time also.

[MDepr2007]

Dang and where is all the thanks this forum gave when Hampton gave the Admiral Twin money a few years ago.
Oh and yes "I told ya so " somewhat[:X]