Cherokee Casino looking for Indians to fill 1,000-

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

I don't think you'd have a lot of agreement from minorities with your assessment.

Naturally, the people who BENEFIT from a bias like affirmative action would disagree with me.

People who have been screwed by it would disagree with you.  

I can tell you for certain, we've gotten some pretty crappy civil service hires in all levels of gov't due to AA.

[Hometown]

Believe me I've seen a few lousy AA hires myself.

But you want to get everyone vested in the system so that they will keep it going when you and I are drawing social security.  Enjoying our golden years -- huh Conan?

Not to mention it's the right thing to do.

[sauerkraut]

I'm a bit old fashioned, but IMO I think government needs to get out of the business of telling companies who they can- and can't hire, and this also goes for telling land lords who they can and can't rent to. If a landlord does not want to rent to a gay couple (or whoever) because it's against his/her faith they should have that right it's their building. A company should have a right to hire anyone they want to as long as the person is a legal resident. I don't like government involved in matters that don't concern them. If I own a business and needed people to hire  I should have the right in a free country to hire anyone I want, after all I'm the one who is paying them..But that's just me. I don't like government in my personal life. The governments main job is  to defend the shores and deliver the mail. Not get involved in private companies hiring.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

I'm a bit old fashioned, but IMO I think government needs to get out of the business of telling companies who they can- and can't hire, and this also goes for telling land lords who they can and can't rent to. If a landlord does not want to rent to a gay couple (or whoever) because it's against his/her faith they should have that right it's their building. A company should have a right to hire anyone they want to as long as the person is a legal resident. I don't like government involved in matters that don't concern them. If I own a business and needed people to hire  I should have the right in a free country to hire anyone I want, after all I'm the one who is paying them..But that's just me. I don't like government in my personal life. The governments main job is  to defend the shores and deliver the mail. Not get involved in private companies hiring.

So then you are in favor of the Cherokee Nation hiring as employees whomever they see fit, even if that means there is a native preference in their hiring practice?

According to you, government should not interfere with who they want to hire.

[Porky]

If some of you think this is bad, just wait until Obama gets into office.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Porky

If some of you think this is bad, just wait until Obama gets into office.

this is what we have to look forward to:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/13/obama-plumber-plan-spread-wealth/

"Obama to Plumber: My Plan Will 'Spread the Wealth Around'"

somehow, I don't see spreading the wealth around as very appealing to the rooftop voters.

[Breadburner]

The Cherokee Nation does not observe MLK day.....

[cannon_fodder]

sauerkraut:

At a certain point it isn't about government being involved with personal choices - it is about guaranteeing constitutional rights.  Property is a right, as are the necessities of life (food, housing, etc.).  If you allow one person to deny someone these services based on a classification you are, in theory, allowing everyone to.  Thus, you would legally be allowing the denial of constitutionally protected rights to an entire class.

Currently you can say "sorry fag, I'm not renting to you" and uncle Sam and certainly Oklahoma wouldn't care.  You can not say that to a particular sex, race, religion, or ethnic group unless other factors exist (a Catholic church can rent it's rectory to just priests, an Indian reservation can subsidize Indian housing).  You are not required as a landlord to rent to a particular group, you simply can't exclude them on the basis given above.

With housing and hiring it becomes a bit of a quandary.  Does HT's firm not have enough black people because they are racist, or because they have not had enough qualified black candidates?  Knowing his firm I'd would venture to say it is not racism, it is either networking or a lack of applicants.  

My take is - then fine.  So long as you are not intentionally excluding a protected class then hire whomever you please.   If the Cherokee Nation felt being a citizen made you more qualified without per se excluding everyone else, I would not be concerned.  However, their current criteria is a thin veil to decide based on race.

quote:Hometown
Not to mention it's the right thing to do.

Hiring based on race, it's the right thing to do!

That doesn't seem gutturally wrong to you?

[Hometown]

Canon,

You have violated the spirit if not the terms of this forum by investigating my identity and where I work.  You have taken two opportunities in this thread to parade your knowledge of my identity.

I imagine you will now attempt to hold this over me for your advantage.

You are a step or two away from blackmail and extortion.

I am a gay man and I can remember a time when gay folks were closeted and neighbors or co-workers would discover their sexuality and hold it over them and commit blackmail.  You fit this pattern.

If you go any further with what you once described as cyberstalking I will take appropriate action.

You are not going to blackmail me or hold the expression of my opinion over my head.

You are offensive.  And you need to get a life.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Canon,

You have violated the spirit if not the terms of this forum by investigating my identity and where I work.  You have taken two opportunities in this thread to parade your knowledge of my identity.

I imagine you will now attempt to hold this over me for your advantage.

You are a step or two away from blackmail and extortion.

I am a gay man and I can remember a time when gay folks were closeted and neighbors or co-workers would discover their sexuality and hold it over them and commit blackmail.  You fit this pattern.

If you go any further with what you once described as cyberstalking I will take appropriate action.

You are not going to blackmail me or hold the expression of my opinion over my head.

You are offensive.  And you need to get a life.

You do a fine job of that your-self...

[Conan71]

One thing which trumps all is that the Cherokee Nation is sovereign, therefore they are no more obligated to observe U.S. employment law than Great Britain is.

That said, I don't find their hiring practices very community-spirted, but they are free to follow their own employment laws.

We wind up doing some contracting with various tribes, but only after they've run the traps on any Indian-owned enterprizes first.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Canon,

You have violated the spirit if not the terms of this forum by investigating my identity and where I work.  You have taken two opportunities in this thread to parade your knowledge of my identity.

I imagine you will now attempt to hold this over me for your advantage.

You are a step or two away from blackmail and extortion.

I am a gay man and I can remember a time when gay folks were closeted and neighbors or co-workers would discover their sexuality and hold it over them and commit blackmail.  You fit this pattern.

If you go any further with what you once described as cyberstalking I will take appropriate action.

You are not going to blackmail me or hold the expression of my opinion over my head.

You are offensive.  And you need to get a life.

How do you know he's not a former employee at the firm you work for and something you said registered with him?  He might have put it together from something you said.  Maybe he's just making a hypothetical statement about where you work.

You've got loose lips.  You might think more carefully about things you say on-line about yourself, where you live, what you do, campaigns you've contributed to, etc. if you don't want your real identity figured out.

The internets are a scary neighborhood.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Canon,

You have violated the spirit if not the terms of this forum by investigating my identity and where I work.  You have taken two opportunities in this thread to parade your knowledge of my identity.

I imagine you will now attempt to hold this over me for your advantage.

You are a step or two away from blackmail and extortion.

I am a gay man and I can remember a time when gay folks were closeted and neighbors or co-workers would discover their sexuality and hold it over them and commit blackmail.  You fit this pattern.

If you go any further with what you once described as cyberstalking I will take appropriate action.

You are not going to blackmail me or hold the expression of my opinion over my head.

You are offensive.  And you need to get a life.

I have done nothing other than read your posts.  I have not spent one moment of my life trying to ascertain the identity of anyone on this board.  Based on the information you have posted - your identity became apparent, at least as far as I know (I could be totally wrong).  I am sorry if this upsets you but it was not intentionally action on my part.  For that matter, I don't even remember your name (names are NOT my strong suit I'm afraid so do not take that as a reflection of you).

Rest assured, I am in no way stalking you nor do I have any plans of divulging any information.  I do not remember your name and have no knowledge of where you live, phone or anything like that.  The screen name Hometown is the identity I am concerned with, not the person behind it.

Nor was it my intent to "flaunt" my knowledge over you. You brought up your place of work in the context of this discussion and I responded in kind.  Likewise I used the office in my example as it is the only employer specifically mentioned in this discussion.  I gave no more information than you had already provided, nor will I.

Substantively, I did not say I agree with the law allowing discrimination based on sexual orientation, I merely pointed out what it was in graphic terms.  Homosexuals are certainly an unprotected class and probably among the most discriminated against today.  I would have to be considered among the most liberal people on this board when it comes to gay rights, I'm not sure how to further respond.

I am sorry you are offended, but rest assured my point was to discuss the topic of Native Employment, which lead to affirmative action and then the topic of protected classes.  The screen name "Hometown" was the focus of such discussion as you were most vocal in opposition to my view.
- - -

I have PM'd you in this regard.

I would, of course, be happy to remove any posts which you feel contain improper information.

[Hometown]

I accept your apology.  And I will take you at your word.  Thank you for your PM which I have read.  And thank you for respecting my privacy.  I do not know who you are but folks in the legal business tend to be a cut above and that is what I want to believe about you.  Apparently I was mistaken when I compared to you to the past blackmailers of gay people.  I look forward to debating with you.

[cannon_fodder]

NP Hometown.  I understand your reaction if you thought I was trying to be a jerk.  Feel free to come out to a lunch sometime and see if you remember me (and if I'm right on who you are). My offer to delete any comment that any poster thinks divulges personal information remains open to you and all others (Conan71 and I think RM have requested redactions before).  I generally free-flow type so whatever is in my brain ends up on the page/screen.

Not to fault you for it, but the timing of your allegation of homophobia was humorous as a gay couple is flying in tomorrow to stay at my house to go to the Ansel Adams exhibit, Rocky Horror, and Oktoberfest (yearly event) and then my son is staying with a different gay couple the night we actually go out to Oktoberfest.  I hope this doesn't sound like I'm playing the "I have plenty of gay friends!" type of card, just the timing amused me as I got a call to confirm their flight while I was responding.

Rest assured, while there are plenty of topics we disagree about, most issues around sexual preference will not be among them.  But if you have any tips on blackmailing gay people they could always come in handy.  []

So... how about them 1000 Indian jobs.  [8D]