Tonight---Round #3--will anyone watch?

[Hoss]

Wow, talk about "Angry McNasty"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGzfYOp34d8

[Hoss]

And let's remind those women whose lives are endangered by pregnancy how McNasty feels on abortion when your life is at stake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N_UfQVuvXo

Somehow I believe the media will have a field day with this.

I'm guessing Tucker Bounds will have his work cut out for him tomorrow.

[pmcalk]

I think the real winner in the debate was of course Joe the Plumber.  Talk about pandering to a small audience.  Interestingly, on the morning shows, Joe admits that he wouldn't fall into the higher tax bracket, and therefore be taxed higher under Obama.  He's just afraid of a "slippery sloap."

How much influence will Joe the Plumber have on the election?  Not much.  Apparently, he isn't registered to vote.

[RecycleMichael]

Maybe the plumber needs a helper.

[iplaw]

It was another snoozer.  

John McCain was wholly unprepared for the evening, as with the other two debates.  He was said to have been studying for these debates unlike any other time before.  I don't see that it payed off.  He may as well have pulled a Tony Romo and taken the week off and went to Cabo.

I think it really hit me last night why conservatives are so frustrated by McCain's performance in these debates.  John McCain is NOT a conservative.  I keep expecting him to act as a conservative and espouse conservative principles and in each of these debates he has failed to deliver on that messsage....and it's because he doesn't believe in conservative ideas like limited government and personal responsibility.

Obama was the only candidate that told people to stop living beyond their means.  McCain is still blaming everyone else and painting the American people as the only "white hat" in the room.

When the Ayers issue came up, McCain basically allowed Obama to innoculate himself, as with the issue of abortion.  He had the opportunity to beat Obama over the head with Obama's committment that his first act as POTUS would be to sign the Freedom of Choice Act which would re-legalize partial birth abortion.  McCain's choice to give Obama a pass on these issues and then make a half assed attempt to bring up issues like Ayers in the debate frankly made him look weak.  With Pelosi and Reid in Congress there will be NO OFFSHORE DRILLING, period, and just like Clinton who ran on a platform of middle class tax cuts and never delivered, there will be NO tax cuts for anyone during an Obama presidency.

This should be a good lesson for the Rep party in the future.  You can't run a candidate like McCain and expect him to look different than the Democrat sitting across the table from him.

Ronald Reagan may have been his idol, but he apparently learned absolutely nothing from him.

John McCain stinks on ice, but the alternative is worse.

[pmcalk]

Correction--Joe the plumber is a registered republican.  His registered name is misspelled.  Good thing his name wasn't purged from the polls.

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

It was another snoozer.  

John McCain was wholly unprepared for the evening, as with the other two debates.  He was said to have been studying for these debates unlike any other time before.  I don't see that it payed off.  He may as well have pulled a Tony Romo and taken the week off and went to Cabo.

I think it really hit me last night why conservatives are so frustrated by McCain's performance in these debates.  John McCain is NOT a conservative.  I keep expecting him to act as a conservative and espouse conservative principles and in each of these debates he has failed to deliver on that messsage....and it's because he doesn't believe in conservative ideas like limited government and personal responsibility.

Obama was the only candidate that told people to stop living beyond their means.  McCain is still blaming everyone else and painting the American people as the only "white hat" in the room.

When the Ayers issue came up, McCain basically allowed Obama to innoculate himself, as with the issue of abortion.  He had the opportunity to beat Obama over the head with Obama's committment that his first act as POTUS would be to sign the Freedom of Choice Act which would re-legalize partial birth abortion.  McCain's choice to give Obama a pass on these issues and then make a half assed attempt to bring up issues like Ayers in the debate frankly made him look weak.  With Pelosi and Reid in Congress there will be NO OFFSHORE DRILLING, period, and just like Clinton who ran on a platform of middle class tax cuts and never delivered, there will be NO tax cuts for anyone during an Obama presidency.

This should be a good lesson for the Rep party in the future.  You can't run a candidate like McCain and expect him to look different than the Democrat sitting across the table from him.

Ronald Reagan may have been his idol, but he apparently learned absolutely nothing from him.

John McCain stinks on ice, but the alternative is worse.

Exactly.  Watching McCain in the debate was just sad.  I kept waiting for some kind of conservative idea to be mentioned but it never happened.  

I still can't believe McCain won the Republican party nomination.

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw



This should be a good lesson for the Rep party in the future.  You can't run a candidate like McCain and expect him to look different than the Democrat sitting across the table from him.

The GOP was dealing with the best of a bad situation. It was dealing with one of the most unpopular presidents in history, so you're already talking about a party with one hand tied behind its back.

McCain was by far the best candidate the GOP had. He had positive ratings far higher than the other candidates. And you had to have someone running away from the current president to even have a chance. That's the reality.

The other ones had huge flaws. Romney was too robotic, Fred Thompson was too lethargic, Giuliani was too liberal, Huckabee was too evangelical, and the rest were too obscure.

Despite McCain's positives, he didn't do much to solidify himself to the electorate in the three-month period in which the Democrats were still fighting it out after he captured the nomination. And he didn't do himself any favors by picking the woefully ill-prepared Sarah Palin as his veep. She's been an albatross around his neck in a lot of battleground states, especially Florida. Imagine if McCain had picked the slick-talking Huckabee as his running mate instead.

That all said, McCain still has a chance to win this thing. But don't delude yourself into thinking that a true-blue conservative would be doing any better in this current atmosphere. The Republicans have damaged their brand with an ill-considered war, runaway spending, a slew of corruption convictions, Terri Schiavo, gay-bashing and torture. That's a lot of obstacles to overcome.

[iplaw]

He's an embarassment to me and many other conservatives, especially fiscal conservatives.

If he would have had the balls to oppose that monstrosity of a bailout and put forth a solid plan for trimming government waste, lowering taxes, and promising criminal prosecutions for those involved in the Lehman/Fannie/Freddie mess he would be walking all over Obama today.

With Pelosi arguing for 300 billion more in another stimulus package, by the time the next president takes office, the national deficit could be somewhere between 1 and 1.5 trillion dollars.  Someone needs to stand up and say STOP THE MADNESS!!!

On a related note, Bernanke came out yesterday and told us all that even WITH the bailout, there is still significant chances of a world-wide recession.  That our efforts may have all been for nothing.

No one wants to face the truth, that we are going to suffer serious pain for a while in dealing with the excesses of living beyond our means both personally and corporately.  No stimulus package or bailout plan will resolve this crisis. We need to stop trying to engineer fixes which are going to lead to unintended consequences and let the market and home prices fall until they hit bottom themselves.  We can pick up the pieces THEN.  Until they are allowed to fail and hit rock bottom, our "fixes" are artificial.

We keep creating false floors and then complain when we fall through them.

I heard several market experts on two different channels say almost exactly the same thing last night.  They were saying, please, give the market some time to breath.  Stop tinkering with the process, offering a new proposal every other day.  These daily fixes are only causing uncertainty in the market.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588
The GOP was dealing with the best of a bad situation. It was dealing with one of the most unpopular presidents in history, so you're already talking about a party with one hand tied behind its back.

McCain was by far the best candidate the GOP had. He had positive ratings far higher than the other candidates. And you had to have someone running away from the current president to even have a chance. That's the reality.

The other ones had huge flaws. Romney was too robotic, Fred Thompson was too lethargic, Giuliani was too liberal, Huckabee was too evangelical, and the rest were too obscure.

Despite McCain's positives, he didn't do much to solidify himself to the electorate in the three-month period in which the Democrats were still fighting it out after he captured the nomination. And he didn't do himself any favors by picking the woefully ill-prepared Sarah Palin as his veep. She's been an albatross around his neck in a lot of battleground states, especially Florida. Imagine if McCain had picked the slick-talking Huckabee as his running mate instead.

That all said, McCain still has a chance to win this thing. But don't delude yourself into thinking that a true-blue conservative would be doing any better in this current atmosphere. The Republicans have damaged their brand with an ill-considered war, runaway spending, a slew of corruption convictions, Terri Schiavo, gay-bashing and torture. That's a lot of obstacles to overcome.

Putting a fiscal conservative on the ticket would have done a lot distance the party from W.  W is NOT a conservative, he is a big goverment republican, just like McCain.

Romney would have been the obvious choice, as his strength was the economy.  He is a brilliant business man. He had the presidential look, and was extremely smart and quick with issues.

As per Palin, she's drawing crowds unlike any other VP candidate the republicans have ever seen.  She frequently draws larger crowds than Obama. Like her or not, she's very popular.

As per the rest of your post, it's nonsense.  This country is still center-right.  Look no further than the candidates the Dems ran in '06.  They were across the board conservative democrats.  The majority of the country is in step with conservatives on gay rights issues.  The majority of the country is not interested in imposing gay marriage.  FYI, neither are your candidates.  Americans may rightly think that Iraq war was a mistake, but the majority are in agreement that victory should not be conceded.  And I don't think the name Terri Schiavo has been mentioned this entire campaign.

The Dems and Reps both have their fair share of scandals.  Did you bother to see that the idiot that took Foley's seat is now being investigated for his own sex scandal?  This line of argument is old and tired.

What I do know is that people don't trust the government to run anything, including healthcare.  The aren't interested in increasing taxes, whether they be capital gains, personal, or otherwise.  People think government is bloated and inefficient. They are overwhelmingly opposed to restrictions on Second Amendment rights.  They are evenly divided on abortion, and they believe in personal responsibility and rugged individualism.

McCain has failed to connect with these core conservative ideas.  That is why he losing.

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588
The GOP was dealing with the best of a bad situation. It was dealing with one of the most unpopular presidents in history, so you're already talking about a party with one hand tied behind its back.

McCain was by far the best candidate the GOP had. He had positive ratings far higher than the other candidates. And you had to have someone running away from the current president to even have a chance. That's the reality.

The other ones had huge flaws. Romney was too robotic, Fred Thompson was too lethargic, Giuliani was too liberal, Huckabee was too evangelical, and the rest were too obscure.

Despite McCain's positives, he didn't do much to solidify himself to the electorate in the three-month period in which the Democrats were still fighting it out after he captured the nomination. And he didn't do himself any favors by picking the woefully ill-prepared Sarah Palin as his veep. She's been an albatross around his neck in a lot of battleground states, especially Florida. Imagine if McCain had picked the slick-talking Huckabee as his running mate instead.

That all said, McCain still has a chance to win this thing. But don't delude yourself into thinking that a true-blue conservative would be doing any better in this current atmosphere. The Republicans have damaged their brand with an ill-considered war, runaway spending, a slew of corruption convictions, Terri Schiavo, gay-bashing and torture. That's a lot of obstacles to overcome.

Putting a fiscal conservative on the ticket would have done a lot distance the party from W.  W is NOT a conservative, he is a big goverment republican, just like McCain.

Romney would have been the obvious choice, as his strength was the economy.  He is a brilliant business man. He had the presidential look, and was extremely smart and quick with issues.

As per Palin, she's drawing crowds unlike any other VP candidate the republicans have ever seen.  She frequently draws larger crowds than Obama. Like her or not, she's very popular.

As per the rest of your post, it's nonsense.  This country is still center-right.  Look no further than the candidates the Dems ran in '06.  They were across the board conservative democrats.  The majority of the country is in step with conservatives on gay rights issues.  The majority of the country is not interested in imposing gay marriage.  FYI, neither are your candidates.  Americans may rightly think that Iraq war was a mistake, but the majority are in agreement that victory should not be conceded.  And I don't think the name Terri Schiavo has been mentioned this entire campaign.

The Dems and Reps both have their fair share of scandals.  Did you bother to see that the idiot that took Foley's seat is now being investigated for his own sex scandal?  This line of argument is old and tired.

What I do know is that people don't trust the government to run anything, including healthcare.  The aren't interested in increasing taxes, whether they be capital gains, personal, or otherwise.  People think government is bloated and inefficient. They are overwhelmingly opposed to restrictions on Second Amendment rights.  They are evenly divided on abortion, and they believe in personal responsibility and rugged individualism.

McCain has failed to connect with these core conservative ideas.  That is why he losing.

If Romney was such an obvious choice, why couldn't he get arrested during the primaries?

Palin is popular with a certain segment. But she's got higher negatives than positives with the electorate. Fumbling around during interviews and not answering questions during a debate will do that.

I'm not denying that the country is center-right, going more center. That's why the Democrats' big tent has helped in elections. Meanwhile, the Republicans' tent has shrunk to a yurt, as Christopher Buckley would say.

Funny that you bring up Foley. He's about as responsible as anyone for the GOP losing its seats in 2006. It put the flaws of the GOP at that time in stark relief, especially when the Abramoff indictments (and convictions) were going hot and heavy.

I think Obama is connecting (so far) more with the electorate because 1) he's not Republican; 2) and he's more pragmatic and calming than McCain. Plus, the "he's a radical" canard doesn't work when they see Obama at the debates being cool and reassuring and McCain acting pissy and twitchy.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

If Romney was such an obvious choice, why couldn't he get arrested during the primaries?

Palin is popular with a certain segment. But she's got higher negatives than positives with the electorate. Fumbling around during interviews and not answering questions during a debate will do that.

I'm not denying that the country is center-right, going more center. That's why the Democrats' big tent has helped in elections. Meanwhile, the Republicans' tent has shrunk to a yurt, as Christopher Buckley would say.

Funny that you bring up Foley. He's about as responsible as anyone for the GOP losing its seats in 2006. It put the flaws of the GOP at that time in stark relief, especially when the Abramoff indictments (and convictions) were going hot and heavy.

I think Obama is connecting (so far) more with the electorate because 1) he's not Republican; 2) and he's more pragmatic and calming than McCain. Plus, the "he's a radical" canard doesn't work when they see Obama at the debates being cool and reassuring and McCain acting pissy and twitchy.

No one knew the major issue that would overwhelm this election cycle would be the economy.  For a while, we all thought that it might be the Georgia/Russia issue.  If we knew then what we know now, I can assure you that Romney would have been the choice.

I don't think Ayers, Wright, Pflager, and Rezco have anything to do with whether Obama is "radical."  It has to do with his judgment.  He sat in Wright's church for 20 years and never heard outrageous statements, he was only 8 when Ayers bombed, as if that has any bearing on the issue.  He never heard Pflagers comments.  He wasn't involved with Rezco, and on and on.

If we are to believe Obama, then we must conclude that Obama is the political equivalent of Mr. Magoo, stumbling through live without ever seeing or hearing anything.

The republicans don't need a tent.  They need to speak to the issues I outlined previously.  If they did that they would connect with the American people.

So far they have chosen not to do so and that is why they are losing.

[mrburns918]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588
The GOP was dealing with the best of a bad situation. It was dealing with one of the most unpopular presidents in history, so you're already talking about a party with one hand tied behind its back.

McCain was by far the best candidate the GOP had. He had positive ratings far higher than the other candidates. And you had to have someone running away from the current president to even have a chance. That's the reality.

The other ones had huge flaws. Romney was too robotic, Fred Thompson was too lethargic, Giuliani was too liberal, Huckabee was too evangelical, and the rest were too obscure.

Despite McCain's positives, he didn't do much to solidify himself to the electorate in the three-month period in which the Democrats were still fighting it out after he captured the nomination. And he didn't do himself any favors by picking the woefully ill-prepared Sarah Palin as his veep. She's been an albatross around his neck in a lot of battleground states, especially Florida. Imagine if McCain had picked the slick-talking Huckabee as his running mate instead.

That all said, McCain still has a chance to win this thing. But don't delude yourself into thinking that a true-blue conservative would be doing any better in this current atmosphere. The Republicans have damaged their brand with an ill-considered war, runaway spending, a slew of corruption convictions, Terri Schiavo, gay-bashing and torture. That's a lot of obstacles to overcome.

Putting a fiscal conservative on the ticket would have done a lot distance the party from W.  W is NOT a conservative, he is a big goverment republican, just like McCain.

Romney would have been the obvious choice, as his strength was the economy.  He is a brilliant business man. He had the presidential look, and was extremely smart and quick with issues.

As per Palin, she's drawing crowds unlike any other VP candidate the republicans have ever seen.  She frequently draws larger crowds than Obama. Like her or not, she's very popular.

As per the rest of your post, it's nonsense.  This country is still center-right.  Look no further than the candidates the Dems ran in '06.  They were across the board conservative democrats.  The majority of the country is in step with conservatives on gay rights issues.  The majority of the country is not interested in imposing gay marriage.  FYI, neither are your candidates.  Americans may rightly think that Iraq war was a mistake, but the majority are in agreement that victory should not be conceded.  And I don't think the name Terri Schiavo has been mentioned this entire campaign.

The Dems and Reps both have their fair share of scandals.  Did you bother to see that the idiot that took Foley's seat is now being investigated for his own sex scandal?  This line of argument is old and tired.

What I do know is that people don't trust the government to run anything, including healthcare.  The aren't interested in increasing taxes, whether they be capital gains, personal, or otherwise.  People think government is bloated and inefficient. They are overwhelmingly opposed to restrictions on Second Amendment rights.  They are evenly divided on abortion, and they believe in personal responsibility and rugged individualism.

McCain has failed to connect with these core conservative ideas.  That is why he losing.

You make some good points about McCain not connecting on core conservative ideas but it's not why he is losing. I think people are questioning a party who doesn't practice what they preach.

Abortion should not even be a topic. Kinda hard to make it one when the last three Republican first ladies are pro-choice. I am against abortion which is why I won't have one. It also helps that I am male. We can't talk about government intrusion then turn around and support it in a different form. Roe vs. Wade will never be overturned, even if the court is conservative.

The problem began when the extreme religious right and others vilified McCain and chose "W" in 2000. This blunder is what ultimately cost the Republican Party this election. Experience wasn't an issue then? Please. Let's face it, we screwed the pooch electing a man who will be regarded as the worst President in the history of this country. Thank you religious right of the Republican party! We now have a test to choose candidates. The dumber you are, the better. Deep pockets and a questionable, immoral past gets you extra points!

McCain had cross over appeal to democrats. During this year's primary McCain was still being vilified by his own party and Fox News, yet ended up winning the nomination. What was the lesson learned from that? People weren't hearing the same ol' case made time and time again by the hard right of the party. Again, if core values were of such importance, then McCain would not have been elected. History had already shown that McCain was middle of the road. This is why people liked him.

When McCain got the nomination I believed that the race was over. Neither NObama or Clinton could beat him due to his crossover appeal. What was the one catastrophe decision McCain made? Making Sarah Palin his running mate. He could have even chosen Huckabee(my preference) a religious right conservative who actually uses his brain. His abilities would have made the Reagan Democrats feel safe. Huckabee may be a bit right but he can at least name a periodical he has read and have the capacity to deal with the media and answer questions. Jeeeeeez.

McCain's campaign has been a repeating car crash. He lost his "Maverick" way while believing he still was. He became just another suck up to the extreme religious right . When he wasn't or tried to invoke his own stance, his previous suck up lines and Sarah Palin were right there to contradict him.

And the market issues added to his supposed demise.

I still don't believe Nobama has this election locked up but I do know the Republicans better get their heads out of the sand. Continuing to focus on issues of morality and then contradict them will eventually wears itself out. Fear based politics is out. It's cycle thing. Just ask any twenty something Iranian.

Sure Palin draws the crowds. I used to hang around Steve's bookstore and read Penthouse but I never bought one.

Mr. Burns
Bob Barr for President  

[carltonplace]

"rugged individualism" a term straight from Herbert Hoover

[iplaw]

I'm not buying it.  

The "religious right" is a paper tiger, or better yet, a strawman.  If the religious right were in charge of this party then we would have ended up with Huckabee.  Palin was not chosen because McCain needed to appeal to the religious right, else again, he could have chosen Huckabee as you so rightly stated.  She was chosen for a variety of other reasons which have been stated ad nauseam and have nothing to do with "religious" issues. The plain facts are that he was behind until he chose Palin.  She energized conservatives and continues, to this day, to draw crowds which rival Obama's.

For example, Reagan had cross over appeal and won over many Democrats who ended up voting for him in his second race.  If there were ever a voice for unabated, wholehearted belief in conservative principles, it was him.  He did not engender favor from democrats by degrading his own party as McCain is famous for.  Nor did he engender favor by standing for bigger government, higher taxes and additional encroachment into our lives.