Did Barack Obama lie in the debate last night?

[Derailed]

Do you remember Barack Obama deny he told "Joe the Plumber" he wanted to increase his small business taxes in last night's debate?  Obama said it was because Joe had been watching John McCain's ads.  Obama then said he wanted to give the plumber, the nurse -- a tax break now.

When John McCain brought up Obama's exact words said to Joe about spreading the wealth Obama shook his head in disagreement.

Watch the video of that part in the debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76pUXPHs2bQ

Watch Obama's talk to Joe the plumber:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x72626_wealth_news

This is called lying.

[pmcalk]

This is what I would call a pretty desparate stretch.  McCain said that Obama wants "joe the plumber" to give Obama money so he can "spread the wealth around."  Obama shook his head in a disapproving way--kind of like the way McCain rolled his eyes, smirked, or made various other jerky gestures to indicate his disapproval.  A lie?  Hardly.

[mrburns918]

quote:Originally posted by Derailed

Do you remember Barack Obama deny he told "Joe the Plumber" he wanted to increase his small business taxes in last night's debate?  Obama said it was because Joe had been watching John McCain's ads.  Obama then said he wanted to give the plumber, the nurse -- a tax break now.

When John McCain brought up Obama's exact words said to Joe about spreading the wealth Obama shook his head in disagreement.

Watch the video of that part in the debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76pUXPHs2bQ

Watch Obama's talk to Joe the plumber:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x72626_wealth_news

This is called lying.

As Johnny Rotten has said in the past, "Boring Sidney".

Did he lie? Uh yes, all candidates do. See Sarah Palin and Troopergate.

It's going around that "Joe the Plummer" is closely related to Charles Keating. Any truth to to this? If so, I can only think of what the great Scooby Doo would say... "rut roh".

Mr. Burns
Bob Barr for President

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

This is what I would call a pretty desparate stretch.  McCain said that Obama wants "joe the plumber" to give Obama money so he can "spread the wealth around."  Obama shook his head in a disapproving way--kind of like the way McCain rolled his eyes, smirked, or made various other jerky gestures to indicate his disapproval.  A lie?  Hardly.

You're gonna see ultra-parsing now that all the debates are done and we have 19 days to go.  Both sides are gonna stretch, but McCain now has to either unveil his 'October Surprise', or get really nasty.

Let's get ready to rumble...

[Derailed]

Let's not forget the Democrats have been in charge of Congress for the past two years.

In 2006,  John McCain and other Republicans signed a letter to officials sounding the alarm about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and how it could affect the entire economy.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28973#continueA  (scroll down for letter)

Can you provide me one letter by Obama that addressed this problem in 2006 or 2007?  Maybe there is one but I haven't seen it.

Have you watched what Democratic Congressman Barney Franks said in 2003 at a hearing where these concerns were discussed?  He said there was no crisis and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should do more to help low-incomes get into housing.  Frank now is the chairman of the Housing Finance Services Committee!  At that hearing he said too many are saying the sky is falling.

Notice the efforts of President Bush which the Democrats completely ignore then and now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QBRIsCkGQ0

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by Derailed

Let's not forget the Democrats have been in charge of Congress for the past two years.

In 2006,  John McCain and other Republicans signed a letter to officials sounding the alarm about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and how it could affect the entire economy.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28973#continueA  (scroll down for letter)

Can you provide me one letter by Obama that addressed this problem in 2006 or 2007?  Maybe there is one but I haven't seen it.

Obama wrote a letter to Paulson and Bernanke in March 2007. It doesn't touch on Fannie and Freddie Mac specifically, but on subprime loans in general:

http://obama.senate.gov/press/070322-obama_urges_ber/

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Derailed

Do you remember Barack Obama deny he told "Joe the Plumber" he wanted to increase his small business taxes in last night's debate?  Obama said it was because Joe had been watching John McCain's ads.  Obama then said he wanted to give the plumber, the nurse -- a tax break now.

When John McCain brought up Obama's exact words said to Joe about spreading the wealth Obama shook his head in disagreement.

Watch the video of that part in the debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76pUXPHs2bQ

Watch Obama's talk to Joe the plumber:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x72626_wealth_news

This is called lying.

No, aptly named Derailed, let me make it simple for you...... since you posted Fox & Friends Republican koolaid that spliced a buncha cherry-picked footage and used it as PROPAGANDA...

YOU.... ARE ..... A.... LIAR.

Why?  Because you take Fox News as the gospel truth.  

[USRufnex]

Here's the REAL conversation in its entirety... and in the next few days, I'm sure we will find out that Joe the Plumber's arguments were entirely hypothetical.... and that he is, in fact... wait for it.... LYING.

Watch this and compare to the piece of crap link YOU posted...

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6031110

Here's is the ENTIRE transcript...

Outside Toledo, Ohio, on Sunday, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was approached by plumber Joe Wurzelbacher, a big, bald man with a goatee who asked Obama if he believes in the American dream.

"I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year," Wurzelbacher said. "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"

Obama said, "First off, you would get a 50% tax credit so you'd get a tax cut for your healthcare costs..... if your revenue is above 250 – then from 250 down, your taxes are going to stay the same. It is true that from 250 up – from 250 – 300 or so, so for that additional amount, you'd go from 36 to 39%, which is what it was under Bill Clinton. And the reason why we're doing that is because 95% of small businesses make less than 250. So what I want to do is give them a tax cut. I want to give all these folks who are bus drivers, teachers, auto workers who make less, I want to give them a tax cut. And so what we're doing is, we are saying that folks who make more than 250 that that marginal amount above 250 – they're gonna be taxed at a 39 instead of a 36% rate."

Responded Wurzelbacher, "the reason I ask you about the American dream, I mean I've worked hard. I'm a plumber. I work 10-12 hours a day and I'm buying this company and I'm going to continue working that way. I'm getting taxed more and more while fulfilling the American dream."

"Well," said Obama, "here's a way of thinking about it. How long have been a plumber?"

Wurzelbacher said 15 years.

Obama says, "Over the last 15 years, when you weren't making 250, you would have been given a tax cut from me, so you'd actually have more money, which means you would have saved more, which means you would have gotten to the point where you could build your small business quicker than under the current tax code. So there are two ways of looking at it – I mean one way of looking at it is, now that you've become more successful through hard work – you don't want to be taxed as much."

"Exactly," Wurzelbacher said.

Obama continued, "But another way of looking at it is 95% of folks who are making less than 250, they may be working hard too, but they're being taxed at a higher rate than they would be under mine. So what I'm doing is, put yourself back 10 years ago when you were only making whatever, 60 or 70. Under my tax plan you would be keeping more of your paycheck, you'd be paying lower taxes, which means you would have saved...Now look, nobody likes high taxes."

"No," said Wurzelbacher.

"Of course not," said Obama. "But what's happened is that we end up – we've cut taxes a lot for folks like me who make a lot more than 250. We haven't given a break to folks who make less, and as a consequence, the average wage and income for ordinary folks, the vast majority of Americans, has actually gone down over the last eight years. So all I want to do is – I've got a tax cut. The only thing that changes, is I'm gonna cut taxes a little bit more for the folks who are most in need and for the 5% of the folks who are doing very well - even though they've been working hard and I appreciate that – I just want to make sure they're paying a little bit more in order to pay for those other tax cuts. Now, I respect the disagreement. I just want you to be clear – it's not that I want to punish your success – I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you – that they've got a chance at success too."

Wurzelbacher said it seemed as though Obama might support a flat tax.

Obama says, "you know, I would be open to it except here's the problem with a flat tax is that if you actually put a flat tax together, in order for it to work and replace all the revenue that we've got, you'd probably end up having to make it like about a 40% sales tax. I mean that's the value added, making it up. Now some people say 23 or 25, but in truth when you add up all the revenue that would need to be raised, you'd have to slap on a whole bunch of sales taxes on. And I do believe for folks like me who have worked hard, but frankly also been lucky, I don't mind paying just a little bit more than the waitress that I just met over there who's things are slow and she can barely make the rent."

Obama said, "My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody. If you've got a plumbing business, you're gonna be better off if you're gonna be better off if you've got a whole bunch of customers who can afford to hire you, and right now everybody's so pinched that business is bad for everybody and I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

"But listen," Obama said, shaking Wurzelbacher's hand, "I respect what you do and I respect your question, and even if I don't get your vote, I'm still gonna be working hard on your behalf, because small businesses are what creates jobs in this country and I want to encourage it."

"Guys I gotta get out of here and go prepare for the debate," Obama said, "but that was pretty good practice right there."

[iplaw]

Wow Ruff.  You called someone a...wait for it...liar!  Do you have any other words in your vocabulary?

[B)]

[USRufnex]

Yes.

Cherry-picker.
Koolaid drinking mole.
Anti-gubmint koolaid drinking plumber.
Gramm-Rudman style bi-partisanship.
Propagandist.
Privatized profits.
Socialized risk.
Fear card.
Victim card.
Spend and spend conservative.
Right wing sockpuppet.
Dick Cheney with lipstick.
Amerika-Amerika-uber-alles republican chest thumping.

...and my favorite one that I thought of just for you, Ippy...

Master- baiter.

[]

[iplaw]

Ruff. If it wasn't for the Internet, and other people writing articles, you wouldn't even have anything to post here.

Get back with us when you have something profitable to add to the discussion.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Ruff. If it wasn't for the Internet, and other people writing articles, you wouldn't even have anything to post here.

Get back with us when you have something profitable to add to the discussion.

I'd say something about the pot and the kettle, but I'd probably get something back about my mother or some such....

[:O]

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Ruff. If it wasn't for the Internet, and other people writing articles, you wouldn't even have anything to post here.

Get back with us when you have something profitable to add to the discussion.

Another.... here it comes.... LIE... from you.
You're being a lying little piggy, yet again.  Just like the lying Republicans...

You know whut, I lived in Chicago for many years, and I've shared personal stories and personal views on this site...

Let me know when you can do anything other than get stuck to the political right of Genghis Kahn, spewing forth and crapping on the TulsaNow forum for years now as a reliable defender of the wealthy and let's-pretend-lawyer...

You so-called "real" conservatives are only deceiving YOURSELVES.  There is a lost group of moderate thinking Republicans (derisively called RINO's) who've been completely ignored by a pompous, conservative "coalition" and disrespected by McCain's choice of Sarah Palin.

So, the Republican Party is losing because it isn't CLOSER to the partisan politics of Rush Limbaugh and Fox News???.... yeah right.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Ruff. If it wasn't for the Internet, and other people writing articles, you wouldn't even have anything to post here.

Get back with us when you have something profitable to add to the discussion.

I'd say something about the pot and the kettle, but I'd probably get something back about my mother or some such....

[:O]

Your obsession with me is borderline John Mark Karr...I'd call you an ankle-biting chihuahua, but that would be an insult to obnoxious, yapping dogs.

Please look at my posts today.  I have no problem addressing issues from my own POV and I never cut and paste substantial portions of other people's statements.  I prefer to speak for myself. Some are either unable, or unwilling to do so.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Ruff. If it wasn't for the Internet, and other people writing articles, you wouldn't even have anything to post here.

Get back with us when you have something profitable to add to the discussion.

I'd say something about the pot and the kettle, but I'd probably get something back about my mother or some such....

[:O]

Your obsession with me is borderline John Mark Karr...I'd call you an ankle-biting chihuahua, but that would be an insult to obnoxious, yapping dogs.

Please look at my posts today.  I have no problem addressing issues from my own POV and I never cut and paste substantial portions of other people's statements.  I prefer to speak for myself. Some are either unable, or unwilling to do so.

Yet another ad-hominem.

You are so predictable.