The Palin-izing of Joe the Plumber

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by azbadpuppy

quote:Originally posted by guido911

BTW, I think people who have never served in the military should be disqualified from commenting on the military strategy in Iraq, don't you?

You mean like Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, John Ashcroft, Paul Wolfowitz, Mitch McConnell, Trent Lott, Tom DeLay, Bill Frist, Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Matt Drudge, etc. etc. etc......

In fact, only one member of G.W. Bush's cabinet has ever served active duty in the military.

ahhh....

That's gonna leave a mark...

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by nathanm
[

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow


43% not supporting a progressive tax rate is a significant minority.

Without seeing the results of the survey, it's impossible to tell whether the "no" number was actually 43%. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a 10-15% "don't know" or "no opinion" on a question like that.

I would say that 43% do not actively support the progressive tax is a reasonable assumption.  I will agree that some "don't know" or "no opinion" percentage may not be supporting something else.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

Wasn't attempting to establish right/wrong, just clearing up who it is that pays the costs.

As for oil companies specifically, I'd actually favor redirecting current economic incentives (tax credits, grants, etc) given them and redirect to alternate energy. That's some $30 billion annualy, which would be quite a boost for alternate energy development programs, if so applied.

I think your claim is they've been getting all this profit (from sales, not grants, but do get huge grants and tax credits as well) and are not redirecting it well into alternate sources as it's percieved we need/want these days.

So, adding another tax for same would seem unnecessary, and fairly poor political fodder.

These are fair points, and if $30 billion is enough to create an "Apollo Program"-type effort, then I'm fine with moving forward without a windfall profits tax.

I simply wanted to take the "boo" factor out of your statement; I felt it needed more context.  We pay taxes at a rate of about 50 cents/gal nationally.  Do I want to pay another 10, 20, or 50 cents a gallon?  Heck no, who does?  But the oil companies would charge us that extra money anyway if they could.  I'd feel better knowing that the money would be used to create domestic alternatives which will lead to lower prices in the future, something that they'd never choose to give us on their own.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little
[But the oil companies would charge us that extra money anyway if they could.  I'd feel better knowing that the money would be used to create domestic alternatives which will lead to lower prices in the future, something that they'd never choose to give us on their own.

If the Oil Companies are smart (big assumption, I know) they will become energy companies rather than oil  companies.  If an alternative was then available at a lower cost but still at a profit, it would become readily available.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow



If the Oil Companies are smart (big assumption, I know) they will become energy companies rather than oil  companies.  If an alternative was then available at a lower cost but still at a profit, it would become readily available.

I don't think this is how capitalism works; why would they voluntarily and unilaterally make a move that would increase competition and lower their profits?

[Wrinkle]

I think we're currently in the position where one big industry is fighting the other for energy control/profits. It has little to do with actual demand at this point, future demand certainly, but years, perhaps decades away yet.

I fully expect big oil to begin to check out geothermal as their primary alternative, while electrical power producers are attempting to corner other markets, primarily wind/solar and the natural gas markets.

The Chesapeake problems of late are due to their (and their entire industry, of which they are a  major player) attempt to ride big oil to the upside, producing huge profits for reinvestment. Turns out, there's little actual relationship between natural gas and imported oil. But, they were attempting to create a market where there would be, with plans to require importation of liquified natural gas. Prices had to rise to do so. Same as for other alternatives, though wind is proving to be a self-sufficient alternate source.

We've seen what I'll just call collusion between natural gas producers and electrical energy providers lately which targets the public pricing policies of both. They need the additional profit (i.e., revenue) to corner these additional markets.

So, for anyone to even suggest energy is a 'free market' at this point is laughable.
The only demand-driven control at this point is on the international scale, and of concern primarily to mid-east producers.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by HazMatCFO

Joe the Plumber asked Obama a few questions that Obama clumsly stumbled with and now the media is diverting attention from what Obama said by stripping down the poor sap who dared ask Obama a few questions. Obama came to this guy to talk, it wasn't like he's a McCain campaign plant who went to attack Obama.

Two questions:

1) The next time any democrat refers to a regular person in their campaign, you think the main stream media will strip this person bare and expose anything remotely questionable?

2) Since the pro-Obama media has now made an example of Joe the Plumber, you think any other average Joe will dare ask Obama a question that may trip him up?

You still don't get it.  It wasn't his questions of Obama that brought him into the spotlight.  No one would know who this guy was if McCain didn't sell him down the river in a political stunt.  Whether Obama or McCain, you can count on the media to act like piranhas. As soon as McCain started mentioning this guy, the media was off in a feeding frenzy; they would have done the same for Obama.  That's what they do.  I am completely confident that many, many more people will question Obama about his policies.  But, as long as neither party uses those questions as part of a campaign gimmick, you will never hear of them.

PS--I am not so sure he wasn't a plant.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow



If the Oil Companies are smart (big assumption, I know) they will become energy companies rather than oil  companies.  If an alternative was then available at a lower cost but still at a profit, it would become readily available.

I don't think this is how capitalism works; why would they voluntarily and unilaterally make a move that would increase competition and lower their profits?

Did I say lower profits? No, I said lower cost but still at a profit.  However, at some point in the future, lower profits may be better than no profits.  If the oil companies don't diversify, they will eventually go away.  I am thinking about the change from whale products to petroleum.  If they are actually making such huge percentage profits now, even a reduction in profit may still give an acceptable return to shareholders.

[guido911]

Well well, speak up or out against Obama and get investigated by the state:

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/27/copy/joe28.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

I am sure it was just a coincidence that a maxed out donor to Obama just happened to look into Joe the Plummer's child support payment history shortly after the third debate.

[mrburns918]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Well well, speak up or out against Obama and get investigated by the state:

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/27/copy/joe28.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

I am sure it was just a coincidence that a maxed out donor to Obama just happened to look into Joe the Plummer's child support payment history shortly after the third debate.

I love how some Republicans get all riled up over invasion of personal records after supporting eight years of "Eastern Germany" tactics perpetrated by the Bush Administration. The next thing you know they will turn feminist and start using the words "sexist" and "sexism" to defend Pali.....oh dang, nevermind.

Mr. Burns
Bob Barr for President

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by mrburns918

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Well well, speak up or out against Obama and get investigated by the state:

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/27/copy/joe28.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

I am sure it was just a coincidence that a maxed out donor to Obama just happened to look into Joe the Plummer's child support payment history shortly after the third debate.

I love how some Republicans get all riled up over invasion of personal records after supporting eight years of "Eastern Germany" tactics perpetrated by the Bush Administration. The next thing you know they will turn feminist and start using the words "sexist" and "sexism" to defend Pali.....oh dang, nevermind.

Mr. Burns
Bob Barr for President

Man, pass around what you've been smokin'. I guess you have no problem with what the state official did to Joe.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by mrburns918

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Well well, speak up or out against Obama and get investigated by the state:

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/27/copy/joe28.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

I am sure it was just a coincidence that a maxed out donor to Obama just happened to look into Joe the Plummer's child support payment history shortly after the third debate.

I love how some Republicans get all riled up over invasion of personal records after supporting eight years of "Eastern Germany" tactics perpetrated by the Bush Administration. The next thing you know they will turn feminist and start using the words "sexist" and "sexism" to defend Pali.....oh dang, nevermind.

Mr. Burns
Bob Barr for President

Man, pass around what you've been smokin'. I guess you have no problem with what the state official did to Joe.

No but the problem here is that you're linking the state official doing the inquiry to Obama with absolutely no proof that he had anything to do with it.

Wingnuttia in action.  It will get uglier for the next week.

[guido911]

Wingnuttia?

Last I checked McCain did not have these folks in his camp:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=77052

Come to think of it, this crew's demonstration is right up your alley.

[USRufnex]

Yes, Wingnuttia.  When did you start chanelling Friendly Bear, Guido?

Sorry, but I don't see Hitler youth here.... What, a few black kids scare ya???

Geez.

And you get this from WorldNutDaily... the same people who give us this...

How Obama prepped world for the Antichrist by Hal Lindsey (the guy who told us the planet alignment in 1982 would provide the gravitational pull to make "the rapture" a reality?!?)
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=71144

Sleaze charge: 'I took drugs, had homo sex with Obama'
Minnesota man takes his case to court, YouTube, $100,000 polygraph challenge
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56626

Yeah, pure class, Guido...... and all because you can't be asked to pay 3% higher taxes on income above $250,000.......

Go figure.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex


Yeah, pure class, Guido...... and all because you can't be asked to pay 3% higher taxes on income above $250,000.......

I think that's important to note. People are calling Obama a socialist over an extra $1500 in taxes per $50,000 over $250,000. Still, their tax rate will be about the same or lower than it was pre-Clinton.