Brookside

[tulsabug]

I've been noticing a lot of churches going up for sale and relocating to smaller abodes if they relocate at all (that's a whole other discussion). The Agape church at 2111 S Darlington between Yale and Sheridan just went up for sale for $1m. It's got a neat mid-century style entrance but not much beyond that. I can imagine some developers will mow it down and build 6-8 new houses on the land since it's not often new midtown residential lots pop up and this is almost 3 acres.

The church at 2111 S Darlington is showing sale pending now so I'm waiting for the bulldozers at this point.

[Red Arrow]

I've been noticing a lot of churches going up for sale and relocating to smaller abodes if they relocate at all (that's a whole other discussion). The Agape church at 2111 S Darlington between Yale and Sheridan just went up for sale for $1m. It's got a neat mid-century style entrance but not much beyond that. I can imagine some developers will mow it down and build 6-8 new houses on the land since it's not often new midtown residential lots pop up and this is almost 3 acres.

So if there is nothing really memorable, like a Frank Lloyd Wright design, why is this not a good thing?  It would get more property on the tax roles.  I like big lots but the urbanistas would probably like at least 20 houses or apartments on that site.

Edit: Make that 12 to 15 houses for 3 acres rather than 20.  But, 20 could fit. Where I grew up was approx 1/8 acre lots, 2 story houses.  Sorry for the bad arithmetic for Tulsa developments.

[tulsabug]

So if there is nothing really memorable, like a Frank Lloyd Wright design, why is this not a good thing?  It would get more property on the tax roles.  I like big lots but the urbanistas would probably like at least 20 houses or apartments on that site.

Edit: Make that 12 to 15 houses for 3 acres rather than 20.  But, 20 could fit. Where I grew up was approx 1/8 acre lots, 2 story houses.  Sorry for the bad arithmetic for Tulsa developments.

No - you misunderstand me - I'm all for tearing it down. It never really made any sense to me as it's sitting on a really huge lot that it doesn't use (or keep up very well). If they needed money they could have just sold the unused space to developers but I think the real issue is their congregation was too small to cover the basic bills and even a lump of cash in the bank would have only delayed the inevitable.

The area it's in has lots of larger 2-story homes with small lots so I think a dozen similar houses will fit nicely in the area.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

The land that the church sits on is two separate properties which are both zoned RES SINGLE-FAMILY MEDIUM DENSITY DIST [RS2], and the last construction on the property is dated 1974 according to the Tulsa County Assessors Office

https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R99315931523210&go=1

https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R10675931506000&go=1

so it could be developed into residential housing. The property as a church itself dates back to the late 50's early 60's and a church has been on the property since. In 1971 or 1972 I had football practice there, and friends that I went to school with at MacArthur/Whitney/Nathan Hale attended that church back then.

Yeah, it's a nondescript structure with no historical significance, so you could just plow it over and shove some more houses in there. Hey, maybe you could do the same with St. Pius Church and school. It's just another Catholic/Christian Church, who needs it?

[tulsabug]

The land that the church sits on is two separate properties which are both zoned RES SINGLE-FAMILY MEDIUM DENSITY DIST [RS2], and the last construction on the property is dated 1974 according to the Tulsa County Assessors Office

https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R99315931523210&go=1

https://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R10675931506000&go=1

so it could be developed into residential housing. The property as a church itself dates back to the late 50's early 60's and a church has been on the property since. In 1971 or 1972 I had football practice there, and friends that I went to school with at MacArthur/Whitney/Nathan Hale attended that church back then.

Yeah, it's a nondescript structure with no historical significance, so you could just plow it over and shove some more houses in there. Hey, maybe you could do the same with St. Pius Church and school. It's just another Catholic/Christian Church, who needs it?

I'm not saying tear it down because it's a church - I'm saying there is no real historical or architectural reason to save it in it's current form. Architecturally neighborhood churches, like this one, are forgettable as most were built on the cheap with just a quick nod to prevailing architectural styles. Same as say lots of 30's small retail buildings which were just square brick structures with some quick and cheap deco frills on the façade. Or current strip malls with faux Italian villa towers (shudder). Hardly enough to make them memorable or warrant putting them on the The National Register of Historic Places. Now - if it was St Pius sitting there then I'd be the first one to tie myself to the front doors to keep it from being torn down. But this ain't that.

Also - who knows - maybe someone bought it to continue it on as a church but I really can't see that happening which is why I'm speculating a land developer bought it to build some houses (which, even before the current crazy housing market, houses in this area hardly ever were for sale more than a week). Neighborhood churches are on the decline for lots of reasons - Megachurches like GUTS taking all the parishioners (and their donations) and such - so you better get ready for a lot of them being torn down by developers to build houses. For better or worse that's just the reality on the ground.

Personally I've always wanted to find a church with a cool nave and convert it into a garage like Nostalgic Motoring did -

[TulsaBeMore]

I'm not saying tear it down because it's a church - I'm saying there is no real historical or architectural reason to save it in it's current form. Architecturally neighborhood churches, like this one, are forgettable as most were built on the cheap with just a quick nod to prevailing architectural styles. Same as say lots of 30's small retail buildings which were just square brick structures with some quick and cheap deco frills on the façade. Or current strip malls with faux Italian villa towers (shudder). Hardly enough to make them memorable or warrant putting them on the The National Register of Historic Places. Now - if it was St Pius sitting there then I'd be the first one to tie myself to the front doors to keep it from being torn down. But this ain't that.

Also - who knows - maybe someone bought it to continue it on as a church but I really can't see that happening which is why I'm speculating a land developer bought it to build some houses (which, even before the current crazy housing market, houses in this area hardly ever were for sale more than a week). Neighborhood churches are on the decline for lots of reasons - Megachurches like GUTS taking all the parishioners (and their donations) and such - so you better get ready for a lot of them being torn down by developers to build houses. For better or worse that's just the reality on the ground.

Personally I've always wanted to find a church with a cool nave and convert it into a garage like Nostalgic Motoring did -

I spent 8 years of my young life at St. Pius.  My (long late) grandfather was a lighting manufacturer's representative and contractor consultant.  He helped Pius get the specially made sunray ceiling lights created.  We grew up with the Moellers who donated the land Pius sits on.  Great memories.  Great school & people.   

[tulsamatt]

Mixed feelings in Brookside neighborhood over Raising Cane's plans

TULSA, Okla. — Fast-food chain Raising Cane's is looking to add to its Tulsa portfolio with a new location in Brookside.

A proposed plan would bring it to an empty building near East 37th Street and Peoria. Best Electric and Hardware at that location closed about two years ago and the building has remained vacant and has become a nuisance in the neighborhood.

"I'm really surprised, no one has taken up this building yet, or torn it down, and done something with it, and someone is wanting to," Bruce Watts said. Watts lives in the neighborhood near where the restaurant would come in.

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/mixed-feelings-in-brookside-neighborhood-over-raising-canes-plans

[SXSW]

Hopefully the planning commission denies Raising Cane's at this location.  It does not conform to the Brookside Village master plan

[shavethewhales]

Yeah, unless they want to do an urban concept without a drive through this is a wasted opportunity for the neighborhood and the space and allowing it will make it easier for more crappy development to get through instead of the high quality dense infil we want.

[swake]

This sounds awful, not the right place for a fast food drive through. They can easily find a location south of 41st and no one would care.

[LandArchPoke]

This sounds awful, not the right place for a fast food drive through. They can easily find a location south of 41st and no one would care.

Hopefully they won't approve it. I don't understand why Brookside doesn't have a more recent small area plan, that would solve a lot of these issues.

Raising Canes has plenty of urban style stores in other cities, they're just being lazy with the design and hoping the city will just rubber stamp it. I'm not against them locating there but they should adapt to the neighborhood like they've done in other cities or find a spot south of 41st in Brookside that is more auto centric already.

[tulsamatt]

This was posted on Nextdoor. Not the best photo but you can see it's about as far from pedestrian friendly as you can get.

[SXSW]

Yeah no way they approve that site plan. Take that garbage south of 41st

[swake]

This was posted on Nextdoor. Not the best photo but you can see it's about as far from pedestrian friendly as you can get.

No, No, No, No.

[ELG4America]

It's Brookside. I am confident the worst possible option will be the one the community backs.