The "Rich" are Now Those Making More than 200K

[guido911]

I thought the rich demarcation line was $250,000 per year. According to Obama, Joe the Plummer only needs to make more than 200K now to be "rich" and not receive a tax cut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJvkRFKGgGw

Any takers on how long the "rich" will be those making more than 100K?

[USRufnex]

[guido911]

Well that did not take long. Biden now says the magic number for being rich is $150,000.00.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAEE1_IUycs

It was tax cuts for those making less that $250K at the debates, it was $200K yesterday, now it is $150K today.

The middle class is getting smaller and smaller as each day passes.

[Nik]

At least he acknowledges the middle class. John McCain went through three debates without uttering the phrase "middle class." Do I think that those making $200K are rich. No, I don't. But do I think they deserve a bigger tax cut than those making less than $50K? No, I don't. McCain does.

[pmcalk]

Guido, you have to start watching another channel besides Fox.  There are two parts to Obama's plan--some will get a tax cut, and some will see their taxes return to the rates that were in effect prior to the Bush tax cuts.  Some will see neither.  Those who make $200,000 or less will get a tax break.  Those making more that $250,000 will see their tax rates return to pre-Bush rates.  Those who make between $200,000 and $250,000 will see no change.

What is or is not "rich" is purely speculation.  Doesn't mean that they are going to raise tax rates on people who make $150,000.

[mrburns918]

I made over $92,000.00 per year. Anyone who makes more than that is rich to me. [}:)]

Actually here is a simple break down:

51% of Americans make $49,999.00
19% of Americans make $50,000 - $74,999
12% of Americans make $75,000 - $99,999
14% of Americans make $100,000- $199,999
3%  of Americans make $200,000 or above

What is "Rich" is a pointless argument. Majority of Americans make less than $75,000.00 a year. The median income is $43,318.00.

In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income. -US Treasury Department

HOWEVER...

Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, has criticised the US tax system for allowing him to pay a lower rate than his secretary and his cleaner.

Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser in New York for Senator Hillary Clinton, Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion (£26 billion), said: "The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you're in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent."

Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience, which included John Mack, the chairman of Morgan Stanley, and Alan Patricof, the founder of the US branch of Apax Partners, that US government policy had accentuated a disparity of wealth that hurt the economy by stifling opportunity and motivation. -Time Magazine

The fact is, the super wealthy do not pay their fair share of taxes.


Mr. Burns
Bob Barr for President

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by mrburns918

I made over $92,000.00 per year. Anyone who makes more than that is rich to me. [}:)]

Actually here is a simple break down:

51% of Americans make $49,999.00
19% of Americans make $50,000 - $74,999
12% of Americans make $75,000 - $99,999
14% of Americans make $100,000- $199,999
3%  of Americans make $200,000 or above

What is "Rich" is a pointless argument. Majority of Americans make less than $75,000.00 a year. The median income is $43,318.00.

In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income. -US Treasury Department

HOWEVER...

Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, has criticised the US tax system for allowing him to pay a lower rate than his secretary and his cleaner.

Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser in New York for Senator Hillary Clinton, Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion (£26 billion), said: "The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you're in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent."

Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience, which included John Mack, the chairman of Morgan Stanley, and Alan Patricof, the founder of the US branch of Apax Partners, that US government policy had accentuated a disparity of wealth that hurt the economy by stifling opportunity and motivation. -Time Magazine

The fact is, the super wealthy do not pay their fair share of taxes.


Mr. Burns
Bob Barr for President

Answer me this. Do you think it is fair that  millions of people who comprise that 3% should pay more in taxes than America's median annual income? In other words, should these people pay more in taxes than the average family earns?

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

Guido, you have to start watching another channel besides Fox.  There are two parts to Obama's plan--some will get a tax cut, and some will see their taxes return to the rates that were in effect prior to the Bush tax cuts.  Some will see neither.  Those who make $200,000 or less will get a tax break.  Those making more that $250,000 will see their tax rates return to pre-Bush rates.  Those who make between $200,000 and $250,000 will see no change.

What is or is not "rich" is purely speculation.  Doesn't mean that they are going to raise tax rates on people who make $150,000.

Can you source that for me since apparently Fox News has it all wrong (even though I am at work right now not watching tv)? Also, how do you explain Biden's comment today? He did not mention 200k or 250k.

As for as rich being a speculative term, that's simply ridiculous. The "rich" are a real class of persons that because of their income will have to pay more in taxes than those that are not "rich".  If Obama gets elected, and the "rich" do start paying more, I cannot wait to see how many of these rich people stop making purchases, or stop hiring people, or start firing people.  

You might think paying more in taxes is good for the country, or even patriotic as Biden believes, but I do not.

[carltonplace]

Population: 303,824,640 (July 2008 est.)  
Age structure:
0-14 years: 20.1% (male 31,257,108/female 29,889,645)
15-64 years: 67.1% (male 101,825,901/female 102,161,823)
65 years and over: 12.7% (male 16,263,255/female 22,426,914) (2008 est.)  

Total work age population is approximately:
203,562,508
6,106,875 of those people make more than 200,000 per year.

What is the current average tax burden for that group?

[midtownnewbie]

[/quote]
Answer me this. Do you think it is fair that  millions of people who comprise that 3% should pay more in taxes than America's median annual income? In other words, should these people pay more in taxes than the average family earns?
[/quote]

Not sure if it's fair, but it's happening today.  If the top 3% earn $200,000+, I think they are all already paying more in taxes than the average family earns.  I don't have my tax tables in front of me but it's definitely close, even at the lowest end of the 3% range.  And that's under the Bush tax tables.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by mrburns918

I made over $92,000.00 per year. Anyone who makes more than that is rich to me. [}:)]

Actually here is a simple break down:

51% of Americans make $49,999.00
19% of Americans make $50,000 - $74,999
12% of Americans make $75,000 - $99,999
14% of Americans make $100,000- $199,999
3%  of Americans make $200,000 or above

What is "Rich" is a pointless argument. Majority of Americans make less than $75,000.00 a year. The median income is $43,318.00.

In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income. -US Treasury Department

HOWEVER...

Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, has criticised the US tax system for allowing him to pay a lower rate than his secretary and his cleaner.

Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser in New York for Senator Hillary Clinton, Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion (£26 billion), said: "The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you're in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent."

Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience, which included John Mack, the chairman of Morgan Stanley, and Alan Patricof, the founder of the US branch of Apax Partners, that US government policy had accentuated a disparity of wealth that hurt the economy by stifling opportunity and motivation. -Time Magazine

The fact is, the super wealthy do not pay their fair share of taxes.


Mr. Burns
Bob Barr for President

There are gaping holes in Mr. Buffett's claim he's not trying to avoid paying higher taxes.  That 17.7% rate was on dividends.  At least to hear him tell it, he does not pay himself a salary.

Pretty smart, that way he pays a lower effective tax rate.  Let's put it in another perspective still:  He would have paid $8.14mm on that $46mm at 17.7%.  

Let's say if that were all salary and he were taxed at 35% on everything over $357,700, he would pay double that in taxes.  Instead of handing over this extra $8 mill or so to the government, he's free to re-invest that money into other enterprises which provide jobs for others or to directly employ more secretaries or cleaners at Berkshire-Hathaway.

I seriously doubt Mr. Buffett would support a tax on his accumulated $52 bln fortune, but that would be only fair wouldn't it?  I mean how many billions does one person need?  Why not bust him back down to common millionaire status and spread his wealth around?

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

If Obama gets elected, and the "rich" do start paying more, I cannot wait to see how many of these rich people stop making purchases, or stop hiring people, or start firing people.  

None of them that I know, well, except for the one guy who is vastly overextended despite his 6 figure yearly distribution on top of his 6 figure salary. Surely the others in the firm can take up his slack.

Besides, if you make more than $97,500, you're already getting off easy by not having to pay any more for Social Security, thus reducing your effective tax rate, while leaving the vast majority of people who make less than that amount to pay the full amount on all their wages.

Regardless, guido is reaching. Biden and Obama have made concrete statements as to what income levels their tax plan will affect in what way. That Biden says that someone making over $150,000 a year is rich (something I agree with for a single earner, although not for a two earner household) doesn't make a lick of difference to the actual numbers.

But when you don't have anything else, obfuscation is a good tactic.

[Wilbur]

My wife and I both work full time.  She makes more then me (I work for the government, what do you expect).  My entire take home salary goes to pay our taxes each year.  Essentially, I work for free.

Pathetic!  I don't care if you call us rich or not.  Someone's entire take-home pay should not have to go to taxes because those who make less then me think I don't pay enough.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

My wife and I both work full time.  She makes more then me (I work for the government, what do you expect).  My entire take home salary goes to pay our taxes each year.  Essentially, I work for free.

Pathetic!  I don't care if you call us rich or not.  Someone's entire take-home pay should not have to go to taxes because those who make less then me think I don't pay enough.

Well stated.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

My entire take home salary goes to pay our taxes each year.  Essentially, I work for free.

Then why aren't you doing something else productive with your time for something other than money, since you aren't getting paid anyway?

I do wonder how it is that you owe so much at the end of the year after withholding from the two jobs that you end up owing the entirety of your take-home to the government, though.