Biden wants to Steal 100% of Profits

[Wilbur]

Tonight (Oct 30) on ABC World News, VP Candidate Joe Biden was shown at a campaign rally saying $4B of Exxon Mobil's profits should go to the taxpayers.  Hear that?  That means 100% of the companies profits should be taken from the company and given to the taxpayers!

If that doesn't scare the he!! out of everyone, it should.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Tonight (Oct 30) on ABC World News, VP Candidate Joe Biden was shown at a campaign rally saying $4B of Exxon Mobil's profits should go to the taxpayers.  Hear that?  That means 100% of the companies profits should be taken from the company and given to the taxpayers!

If that doesn't scare the he!! out of everyone, it should.

Um, wasn't ExxonMobil's profit last year somewhere around $12 or $16 billion? Damn fearmongers.

Edited to add:

Oh, wait, look at this CNN article...

quote:
Exxon Mobil (XOM, Fortune 500), the leading U.S. oil company, said its third-quarter net profit was $14.83 billion, or $2.86 per share, up from $9.41 billion, or $1.70, a year earlier. That profit included $1.45 billion in special items

Yes, 6% of their profits..that's really taking all of their profits. You can do better than that. [xx(]

Edited again to add: And you failed to mention he was talking about no longer giving them certain tax breaks, not an actual tax rate increase or the windfall profits tax that some have been talking about. [xx(][xx(]

Way to spin, there, Wilbur.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Tonight (Oct 30) on ABC World News, VP Candidate Joe Biden was shown at a campaign rally saying $4B of Exxon Mobil's profits should go to the taxpayers.  Hear that?  That means 100% of the companies profits should be taken from the company and given to the taxpayers!

If that doesn't scare the he!! out of everyone, it should.

The Obama Menace !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyxbcLYoH_4

......what really scares me is when the JackBooted Thugs of the Republican Party will STOOP TO ANYTHING to win an election...

[USRufnex]

BTW, didn't a certain Alaska governor actually do that............ pot to kettle, come in kettle....

EXHIBIT A:  Gov. Sarah Palin "spreading the wealth" -- that's right folks, guess that makes her a big time "wealth redistributor".... I guess you could call her the "redistributor in chief".... and we all know what that means.... she's a SOCIALIST!!!  Throw her in Prudhoe Bay.... and if she floats...... she's a witch!  
[]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008103325_alaskatax07.html

Republicans in Congress this June united to defeat a proposed windfall tax on oil companies, deriding it as a bad idea that would discourage investment in U.S. oil exploration.

Things worked out far differently in the GOP stronghold of Alaska, a state whose economic fate is closely tied to the oil industry.

Over the opposition of oil companies, Republican Gov. Sarah Palin and Alaska's Legislature last year approved a major increase in taxes on the oil industry — a step that has generated stunning new wealth for the state as oil prices soared.

At a time when Americans are feeling the pinch at the gasoline pump and oil companies are racking up record profits, Alaska's choice foreshadows one of the sharpest debates in the upcoming presidential election.

Democrat Barack Obama supports a national windfall-profits tax, while Republican John McCain opposes it.

Alaska collected an estimated $6 billion from the new tax during the fiscal year that ended June 30, according to the Alaska Oil and Gas Association. That helped push the state's total oil revenue — from new and existing taxes, as well as royalties — to more than $10 billion, double the amount received last year.

------------------------------------------------


Alaska's oil windfall - by the numbers
$6 billion

Estimated revenue collected by state of Alaska from new tax on oil profits this fiscal year.
$10 billion

Estimated total oil revenue collected by state this year (old plus new oil taxes).
$1,200

Special payment to each Alaskan resident this year from new oil tax.
$2,000

Estimated annual dividend each Alaskan will receive this year from oil-wealth savings account, not counting the new oil tax.

How the windfall tax works
The tax is imposed on the net profit earned on each barrel of oil pumped from state lands, after deducting costs for production and transportation.

The tax is set at its highest rate in Prudhoe Bay, where the state takes 25 percent of the net profit of a barrel when its price is at or below $52.

The percentage then escalates as oil prices rise over that benchmark.

[Chicken Little]

Wilbur. Dude. You gotta check your facts.  Exxon Mobil announced today net profits of $14.83 billion...for the third quarter!  That's the biggest quarterly profit for any company, anywhere, ever.

They had a net profit of over $40 billion last year Wilbur.  Don't worry, they'll be fine.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

They had a net profit of over $40 billion last year Wilbur.  Don't worry, they'll be fine.

Then the gov't needs to take more. Make sure that doesn't happen again. Shame on them.  

No question they made a LOT of $.  Anybody have some verifiable numbers on what percentage profit that is?  I've kind of remember hearing that is still only about 12% or so of gross revenue.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

They had a net profit of over $40 billion last year Wilbur.  Don't worry, they'll be fine.

Then the gov't needs to take more. Make sure that doesn't happen again. Shame on them.  

No question they made a LOT of $.  Anybody have some verifiable numbers on what percentage profit that is?  I've kind of remember hearing that is still only about 12% or so of gross revenue.

$14 billion on $131 billion in revenue for the quarter. Far better than, say, Wal-Mart, who makes do with only a couple percent.

Either way, you aren't getting it. If they're making that much profit, do we really need to keep giving them tax breaks?

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by nathanm
$14 billion on $131 billion in revenue for the quarter. Far better than, say, Wal-Mart, who makes do with only a couple percent.

Either way, you aren't getting it. If they're making that much profit, do we really need to keep giving them tax breaks?

I think I get it. An all time record quarter with tax breaks to boot and they make approximately 11% profit. Hardly something to set investors wallets on fire. They'd do better in pharmaceutical companies or the media.  

Maybe we can cut the tax breaks but adding punitive measures is not necessary.

[Conan71]

Cheap election year rhetoric to hi-jack votes.

The oil & gas industries are spending a lot more money with my company right now than the government.  So my personal preference would be to allow the O & G industries to keep spending money like crazy on new energy infrastructure, alt fuels research, and badly-needed infrastructure upgrades.  They will "spread the wealth" in more productive ways.

I don't see where anyone in Tulsa has room to diss the O & G business, considering it's a huge engine in our local economy.  Still much bigger than most people realize.  There are very few, if any, industries in our area which is not impacted by the presence of O & G profits being spent here locally.

Let's see- $4 bln spread over 300 mm or so people, that's $13.33 a person.  Assuming 120mm will vote, that's about $33 or so per vote.  I'm a whore Joe, but my vote costs a whole lot more than $33.

[mrburns918]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Cheap election year rhetoric to hi-jack votes.

The oil & gas industries are spending a lot more money with my company right now than the government.  So my personal preference would be to allow the O & G industries to keep spending money like crazy on new energy infrastructure, alt fuels research, and badly-needed infrastructure upgrades.  They will "spread the wealth" in more productive ways.

I don't see where anyone in Tulsa has room to diss the O & G business, considering it's a huge engine in our local economy.  Still much bigger than most people realize.  There are very few, if any, industries in our area which is not impacted by the presence of O & G profits being spent here locally.

Let's see- $4 bln spread over 300 mm or so people, that's $13.33 a person.  Assuming 120mm will vote, that's about $33 or so per vote.  I'm a whore Joe, but my vote costs a whole lot more than $33.

I am willing to accept a $50.00 gas card. []

-Whore Mr. Burns

[Chicken Little]

The problem, Red Arrow, is that the oil companies don't give a damn about energy independence, climate change, or you and me.

A company like Pfizer, who had $47 billion in sales last year, spent $8 billion on research; that number is 17% of sales.  That kind of investment is typical of the pharmaceutical industry.

Microsoft had $51 billion in sales last year and poured over $8 billion in R&D...and they're considered an (evil) monopoly.  There's a pattern with successful companies...they invest in new products in order to stay ahead.

So, what about big oil?  Exxon, who had $404 billion in net sales last year spent a paltry $600 million on research.  For the mathematically challenged, that's 0.1%.  Point. One. Percent.  This is an important number because it demonstrates that this company feels no external threats, that it's "good to go" with the status quo, and that it enjoys way too much control of over the market.

When I see numbers like that it makes me think that that Big Oil will ride this trend for centuries if they can: gouging your great-great grandchildren at the pump; putting their country at risk every day, too.  That's irresponsible behavior and it should not be rewarded.

One could argue that the function of a corporation is to generate a profit for the shareholders and that's all; that these corporations are amoral entities that owe you nothing more than a tankfull of gas to make the motor go.  I think that's bull.  If I have to be a good citizen, then so do they.

So, if they're not going to do their part for  energy independence and climate protection, then we'll just have to tax them and do the research and development ourselves.  Grants and startup loans to better corporate citizens?  Sounds fair to me.

[inteller]

one thing you fail to understand is the fact that oil industry is pretty much a mature industry.  $600-1bln is a pretty typical R&D budget in O&G.  they pretty much know where all the recoverable oil and gas is, they are just waiting for it to become cost effective to extract some of it.  You should be very happy that oil ran up to $140 because it allowed then to justify putting some wells into some basins that were previously unprofitable to do so, like in north and south dakota.  They have known about oil up there for better half of a century, they spent the money on R&D to figure out how to extract it, but it was still too expensive to pull out of the ground until recently.  Well now people have wells in, they got paid for with the expensive oil they pulled out and now they are regular producers.  It happens that was everywhere.

people forget that in the 90s oil was cheap...real cheap, yet companies like exxon still spent 600 mill on R&D.  They stuck to their guns during the lean years, and now people want to punish them for the fruits of their labor.....how pathetic.


You really expect any company to go drill in profit averse areas out of the goodness of their hearts?  This is the same logic that wanted banks to give away cheap mortgages...look where that got us.

[Conan71]

Thank you Inteller.  Excellent analysis, especially the comment about it being a mature industry.

A lot of people are not aware that big oil is also investing in alternative fuels research.  Ethanol, bio-diesel, turning coal into light-end liquids and gas, turning gas into liquids, turning sh!t into oil.  They are well aware there's finite reserves of oil and to still be in the energy business in 100 years, they will need to be producing something else other than petroleum products.

What really irked me was Obama telling a crowd of people that those Exxon profits are "your money".  No it's not my money, only if I'm a share-holder.  Exxon earned it, they didn't steal it (thought it may feel like it).  People willingly paid the price for their product.  If Exxon's cost basis was $40/bbl getting oil out of the ground in certain wells, it's not their fault when that oil starts selling for $147/bbl.

[Nik]

Can we get a [DEBUNKED] tag to add to thread titles for situation like this?

[Wilbur]

Two things to consider:

1.  Companies don't pay taxes, their customers do.  That would be you and me.

2.  Taking money from Exxon Mobil to give to some other non-tax paying citizen is taking money from me and you, since most of us are owners of Exxon Mobil (stocks and mutual funds).  As owner, I'm none too keen on someone taking part of my profits to hand out because my company makes too much, in someone's opinion.


And I stand corrected on my numbers in the first post.  Not sure what I was thinking about from their total profits of $15B and Biden wanting to take $4B, which obviously isn't 100%.  But, I still don't want Biden taking the profits, no matter how little/much.