If McCain had Won, I Wonder if....

[Wilbur]

1.  Oprah would have worn the same HOPE NOW t-shirt on her show the next day and had the same guests on praising our new President.

2.  Joy Behar would have made the same similar statements as her co-host Elisabeth Hasselbeck on The View offering her support of the new president.

For some reason, I have doubts about both.

Others?

[we vs us]

1) Probably not.

2) Who knows?

3) Why do you care?

[USRufnex]

Well, wevus, he's trying to argue that republicans are simply better people than democrats... you know, the REAL americans...

Of course, another question that could be asked:

"If Obama had lost, would their campaign have thrown Joe Biden under the bus in the same way "anonymous" McCain campaign staffers trashed  Sarah Palin???"

OMG! McCain Aides Bury Sarah Palin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuY0GlxOdlg&feature=related

Enquiring minds want to know... I want to know.  [:O]

[cannon_fodder]

I was thinking back to the transition from the Clintons to Bush and how obstructionist they were.  Order of business #1 was getting new keyboards for all the staff because the W was missing.  Order #2 was to inventory the items Hillary took with her (gifts to the president are not personal gifts, they are gifts to the nation and stay in the Whitehouse.  Well, they are supposed to).  And third was trying to get up to speed with everything.

To his credit, Bush seems to be doing all he can to make it a smooth transition.  Obama is going to the Oval office with Bush already to start getting a feel for the place.

I'm fairly confident neither party has a monopoly on goodness.  Bush did plenty wrong as president, but at least he's showing respect to Obama and the nation by trying to make a smooth transition.  Hell, at this point he is probably more than ready to get of of Washington.

[kylieosu]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/bush_can_i_stop_being_president

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder....  Hell, at this point he is probably more than ready to get of of Washington.

Hell, there are at least about 62 million of us ready also!

[]

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I was thinking back to the transition from the Clintons to Bush and how obstructionist they were.  Order of business #1 was getting new keyboards for all the staff because the W was missing.

A fabrication, as it happens:

quote:. . . [W]ithin two days, Grove's playful item had morphed into one more full-blown Clinton scandal. Suddenly newspapers and TV news shows were featuring extensive reports of Clinton administration "vandalism," stretching from the EOB offices of former Vice President Gore to the West Wing. Reports alleged expletive-ridden graffiti, sliced computer and telephone wires, file cabinets glued shut, presidential seals steamed off doors, stolen pictures and so-called porn bombs, which were never exactly described.  

The technological problems the vandals wrought were so severe that, according to a report in the New York Daily News, "a telecommunications staffer with more than a quarter-century of service was seen sobbing."  

"Phone lines cut, drawers filled with glue, door locks jimmied so that arriving Bush staff got locked inside their new offices," a disapproving Andrea Mitchell reported on NBC News. The message seemed clear: The trailer-trash Clintons and their staff had enjoyed one last bacchanal at taxpayer expense.  

Now it seems those closely detailed stories were largely bunk.  Last week it was revealed that a formal review by the General Accounting Office, Congress' investigative agency, "had found no damage to the offices of the White House's East or West Wings or EOB" and that Bush's own representatives had reported "there is no record of damage that may have been deliberately caused by the employees of the Clinton administration."

[sgrizzle]

Actually, true:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CEFDE163CF931A25755C0A9649C8B63

quote:
June 12, 2002
White House Vandalized In Transition, G.A.O. Finds
By ROBERT PEAR

The General Accounting Office, an investigative arm of Congress, said today that ''damage, theft, vandalism and pranks did occur in the White House complex'' in the presidential transition from Bill Clinton to George W. Bush. The agency put the cost at $13,000 to $14,000, including $4,850 to replace computer keyboards, many with damaged or missing W keys.

Some of the damage, it said, was clearly intentional. Glue was smeared on desk drawers. Messages disparaging President Bush were left on signs and in telephone voice mail. A few of the messages used profane or obscene language.

''A Secret Service report documented the theft of a presidential seal that was 12 inches in diameter from the Eisenhower Executive Office Building,'' next to the White House, on Jan. 19, 2001, the accounting office said.

Six White House employees told investigators that they had seen graffiti derogatory to Mr. Bush on the wall of a stall in a men's room. Other White House employees saw a sticker in a filing cabinet that said, ''Jail to the thief,'' implying that Mr. Bush had stolen the 2000 election. The report said all these employees were members of the current White House, but did not make clear whether any had also worked in the Clinton White House.

The accounting office said similar pranks were reported in prior transitions, including the one from Mr. Bush's father to Mr. Clinton in 1993. ''We were unable to conclude,'' it said, ''whether the 2001 transition was worse than previous ones.''

The accounting office interviewed more than 100 government employees, but said it could not establish who was responsible for the damage and the pranks.

''Any intentional damage at the White House complex, which is a national treasure, is both inappropriate and a serious matter,'' the report said. ''The theft of or willful damage to government property would constitute a criminal act.''

The investigation was undertaken in response to a request from Representative Bob Barr, Republican of Georgia, one of Mr. Clinton's harshest critics. ''The Clinton administration treated the White House worse than college freshmen checking out of their dorm rooms,'' Mr. Barr said today.

The Bush White House was deeply disappointed with the report. Alberto R. Gonzales, counsel to President Bush, had demanded that the accounting office provide more detail, including the full text of graffiti and other messages that were ''especially offensive or vulgar.''

The accounting office said such details were unnecessary and inappropriate. But Bush administration officials said the details would have revealed the ''mind-set or intentions'' of Clinton administration pranksters. Moreover, in a response much longer than the actual report, the Bush administration said, ''It appears that the G.A.O. has undertaken a concerted effort to downplay the damage found in the White House complex.''

In several instances, it appears, Clinton and Bush administration officials simply disagreed about the normal condition of federal offices. Bush officials said they had found offices full of trash, broken furniture and filthy carpets. Clinton administration officials insisted that the dirt and damage reflected normal wear and tear.

The accounting office confirmed that $9,324 had been spent to repair or replace various items and to clean offices. That included $4,850 for 62 keyboards, $2,040 for 26 cellphones and $1,150 for professional cleaning. In addition, the White House and the General Services Administration estimated that it cost $3,750 to $4,675 to replace missing doorknobs, medallions and office signs and the large presidential seal, the accounting office said.

Julia M. Payne, a spokeswoman for Mr. Clinton, referred questions to Jennifer Palmieri, a spokeswoman for the Democratic National Committee.

''The real scandal here,'' Ms. Palmieri said, ''is how much time and money the Republicans have wasted in a vendetta against the Clinton administration. It's troubling that the White House cooperated so enthusiastically with this investigation, but refused to provide the G.A.O. with records of the energy task force headed by Vice President Cheney.''

Anne Womack, a spokeswoman for Mr. Bush, said: ''The G.A.O. confirmed that damage was done at the White House. We have considered this matter closed for more than a year. Our focus is on moving forward.''

To minimize damage in future transitions, the accounting office said, the government should inspect office space, furniture and equipment of departing White House employees and penalize those who willfully deface federal property.

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

1.  Oprah would have worn the same HOPE NOW t-shirt on her show the next day and had the same guests on praising our new President.

2.  Joy Behar would have made the same similar statements as her co-host Elisabeth Hasselbeck on The View offering her support of the new president.

For some reason, I have doubts about both.

Others?

Who cares? Why waste time on hypotheticals that aren't going to happen anyway? The die is cast.

[we vs us]

Interesting, Sgrizz.  I stand corrected.

[USRufnex]

Let's not forget the differences between the 2008 election and the one in 2000....

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/florida.ballots/stories/main.html

The butterfly and caterpillar ballots

One of the most controversial aspects of the Florida election was the so-called butterfly ballot used in heavily Democratic Palm Beach County. Many voters came out of the polls saying they were confused by the ballot design.

According to the study, 5,277 voters made a clean punch for Gore and a clean punch for Reform Party nominee Pat Buchanan, candidates whose political philosophies are poles apart. An additional 1,650 voters made clean punches for Bush and Buchanan. If many of the Buchanan votes were in error brought on by a badly designed ballot, a CNN analysis found that Gore could have netted thousands of additional votes as compared with Bush.

Eighteen other counties used another confusing ballot design known as the "caterpillar" or "broken" ballot, where six or seven presidential candidates are listed in one column and the names of the remaining minor party candidates appeared at the top of a second one. According to the study, more than 15,000 people who voted for either Gore or Bush also selected one candidate in the second column, apparently thinking the second column represented a new race.

Had many of these voters not marked a minor candidate in the second column, Gore would have netted thousands of additional votes as compared with Bush.

However, the double votes on both butterfly and caterpillar ballots were clearly invalid under any interpretation of the law.

[cannon_fodder]

I didn't know those facts were even in question, by most accounts they made the transition as difficult as possible and stole whatever they could.

The Clinton White House Heist:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_/ai_n9045376

More than $400,000 is gifts were taken from the White House when the Clinton's left.  They were tracked down by thank you notes.  Of the gifts they took, some can be considered personal and they would be allowed to keep - if properly disclosed (which they were not).  Others were government property that taken just the same.

At least $30,000 of property take predated the Clinton's.  Most of items taken were not properly checked out by the curator or the usher (clearing houses for government property apparently).

The Clinton's ended up paying about $90,000, returning 19 items, and keeping the rest.

I don't care if you are left or right of the aisle, the attitude that I will take what I want from the White House is pathetic.   Why would the head of state be allowed to keep the vast majority of gifts received?  Nearly everything should be given to the tax payers - clearly if not the president he would not have gotten the gifts.  Many or most were given to the President of the United States, not Bill Clinton.

Bah, beating a dead horse.  Lets see if Bush at lest goes out with some class.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I didn't know those facts were even in question, by most accounts they made the transition as difficult as possible and stole whatever they could.

The Clinton White House Heist:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_/ai_n9045376

More than $400,000 is gifts were taken from the White House when the Clinton's left.  They were tracked down by thank you notes.  Of the gifts they took, some can be considered personal and they would be allowed to keep - if properly disclosed (which they were not).  Others were government property that taken just the same.

At least $30,000 of property take predated the Clinton's.  Most of items taken were not properly checked out by the curator or the usher (clearing houses for government property apparently).

The Clinton's ended up paying about $90,000, returning 19 items, and keeping the rest.

I don't care if you are left or right of the aisle, the attitude that I will take what I want from the White House is pathetic.   Why would the head of state be allowed to keep the vast majority of gifts received?  Nearly everything should be given to the tax payers - clearly if not the president he would not have gotten the gifts.  Many or most were given to the President of the United States, not Bill Clinton.

Bah, beating a dead horse.  Lets see if Bush at lest goes out with some class.

Cannon,

Your source is highly suspect. Human Events is a conservative rag with such "unbiased" authors as Ann Coulter, Patrick Buchanan and Oliver North. Find a better source see if you can verify that.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I didn't know those facts were even in question, by most accounts they made the transition as difficult as possible and stole whatever they could.

The Clinton White House Heist:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_/ai_n9045376

The Clintons didn't "steal whatever they could."

Typical conservative bias, CF.  Does this political tit-for-tat BS ever end???  Politics of personal destruction, anyone???

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1686

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1689

--Bill O'Reilly (1/26/01): "I mean, the price tag right now is about $200,000, so that's a felony right there."

Thank you for reminding me of Ken Starr and all the crazy crap that involved the politics of personal destruction in the late 90s..... which is the reason why moveon.org exists.... people are sick of the political gotcha games... and to imply that the Bushes somehow have more class than the Clintons tells me all I need to know.....

Conservative bias codified.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/t/trashingthewhitehouse.htm

Summary of eRumor:
When George W. Bush took over the presidency in 2001, his new staff arrived in the offices of the White House to find that there had been widespread pranks and vandalism by the departing Clinton staff.  Published reports said computers were left unusable, pornography was found on both computers and walls, and telephone systems were trashed by the cutting of cables and wires.
bullet   

The Truth:  
The final, official report from the Government Accounting Office was released on June 11, 2002.  The 220 page document says there was damage, although not as much as some of the early reports had suggested.  The GAO says the damage included 62 missing computer keyboards, 26 cell phones, two cameras, ten antique doorknobs and several presidential medallions and office signs.  The damage estimate was about $20,000.  Clinton critics say the report proves that the departing Clinton staff members acted recklessly and disrespectfully.  Clinton supporters say the report shows that the allegations of vandalism were exaggerated and that there were similar incidents when Clinton took over the White House from the staff of George Bush.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex


Typical conservative bias, CF.  Does this political tit-for-tat BS ever end???

Conservative bias.  Liberal bias.  It all depends on which side of center you are.  I had forgotten about Ken Starr, I guess it doesn't end.