Owasso: " No" to Commuter Bus

[Chicken Little]

From Tulsa World

quote:The City Council rejected a proposal Tuesday night for a Tulsa Transit express route from Owasso to downtown Tulsa.

The vote comes despite 75 percent of respondents to a summer survey having said they would support the line, which could have started in March.

When the city surveyed residents three years ago, only 15 percent responded positively to the plan.

"There is a value to it, but how much can you invest?" (Councilor Bonebrake) asked.

Well, apparently $30,015 annually is too rich for Owasso's blood.

[sgrizzle]

Suburban Myopia is alive and well.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

From Tulsa World

quote:The City Council rejected a proposal Tuesday night for a Tulsa Transit express route from Owasso to downtown Tulsa.

The vote comes despite 75 percent of respondents to a summer survey having said they would support the line, which could have started in March.

When the city surveyed residents three years ago, only 15 percent responded positively to the plan.

"There is a value to it, but how much can you invest?" (Councilor Bonebrake) asked.

Well, apparently $30,015 annually is too rich for Owasso's blood.

I think the reasons are deeper than just cost.  Owasso is one of those ankle biter up and comers and they don't want Tulsa to turn them into a commuter town.

I wonder if a private venture could make a go of it.  $30k to offer one line to owasso?  That sounds pretty cheap to me.  I'm sure that price is subsidized somewhere but still I bet an outfit like the Bill White Co could do it.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

Owasso is one of those ankle biter up and comers and they don't want Tulsa to turn them into a commuter town.

Turn them into a commuter town?  

The population doubled from 2000 to today (18 to 36K).  Average household income is near $80,000 (2007 Claritas). Pretty sure those people don't work in the chain restaurants that have popped up.  Where might they all work... hmmm.

IMHO, people in Owasso don't need the bus.  They can drive our SUV's and afford it even if gas gets to $4.00 a gallon again.  Bus?  Bus!  I didn't move to a suburb to ride public transportation!

[carltonplace]

Looks like they said: "Thanks - but no thanks to that bus to nowhere".

[Composer]

Glad Broken Arrow leaders approved it years ago.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

From Tulsa World

quote:The City Council rejected a proposal Tuesday night for a Tulsa Transit express route from Owasso to downtown Tulsa.

The vote comes despite 75 percent of respondents to a summer survey having said they would support the line, which could have started in March.

When the city surveyed residents three years ago, only 15 percent responded positively to the plan.

"There is a value to it, but how much can you invest?" (Councilor Bonebrake) asked.

Well, apparently $30,015 annually is too rich for Owasso's blood.

I think the reasons are deeper than just cost.  Owasso is one of those ankle biter up and comers and they don't want Tulsa to turn them into a commuter town.

I wonder if a private venture could make a go of it.  $30k to offer one line to owasso?  That sounds pretty cheap to me.  I'm sure that price is subsidized somewhere but still I bet an outfit like the Bill White Co could do it.

Maybe. I have my doubts though. You're talking a regular route that would operate at least twice daily. From my experience, the annual cost of insurance alone might be $30,000. Insurance companies don't like the liability of these systems or the creditworthiness of private operators. Municipalities self insure so that isn't a big cost to them.

Then talk about dedicating a couple of busses to that line at about $100,000 apiece used(they aren't going to want to ride on school busses) and the related operating and maintenance costs of the vehicles and you're talking a money pit. Again, municipalities and authorities, partly subsidized by the taxpayer, can spread these costs over a large fleet and maybe even store their own fuel, but not a small private operator.

Not likely revenues would balance that off either without sponsorship. Bill White is primarily a charter service for private parties, events and municipal contract work. Owasso made a smart move actually.

[inteller]

how many people actually ride the express line from BA to downtown?  I've passed that bus on occasion and it looked pretty empty.  Now I didn't see it when gas was high, perhaps it was more full then.

A global problem with riding the bus is the inflexibility of companies to accept the nuances of bus schedules.  If I worked for a company that considered the environmental and economic benefits of bus riding and provided a little understanding that a person couldn't always arrive on the dot every day for work, I might consider it.  The shadow hanging over bus riding though is the fear of employees losing their job because they arrive late sometimes and have to leave on time to catch the bus.  The same problem affects car pooling.

[JCnOwasso]

I agree with the "no" vote.  

Downtown is probably the easiest place to get to from Owasso.  Little traffic (atleast when I leave at 7am) and I am in transit for less than 15 minutes... most of that is on the trip down 86th street stuck behind a person who is going 35.  I don't have to deal with the IDL, and thankfully I don't have to deal with 169 anymore.  Plus there are several carpool opportunities if you want to save travel costs.

[PonderInc]

Unfortunately, folks in Owasso aren't seeing the forest for the trees.

Here's an insightful quote from the Owasso Chamber of Commerce website:

"One of Owasso's key industrial attributes is accessibility. Air, water and super-highway transportation are well within easy distance, making the city a transportation hub of northeastern Oklahoma.

Promoting and lobbying for transportation improvements in our area is an important mission of the Chamber. In 2002, the Owasso Chamber led the way for the nearly $900,000 improvement to Hwy 20 between U.S. 169 and the Verdigris River. This year, we will see the widening of 76th St. North from Owasso to Hwy 75 take place as part of the 4-To Fix the County propositions past in Nov of 2000. The Owasso Chamber played an important role in passage of these important county propositions. In the future, your chamber will be leading the way for other roadway expansions, including U.S. 169 from Interstate 244 north to Owasso.
"

Guess who pays for all this highway construction and widening!  

Given that most Owassoans work in the City of Tulsa, it's too bad that they would rather spend OUR tax dollars expanding THEIR highways to subsidize their living choices, rather than spending their own money to help their folks get to their jobs in our city.

Hmmm...

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by JCnOwasso

I agree with the "no" vote.  

Downtown is probably the easiest place to get to from Owasso.  Little traffic (atleast when I leave at 7am) and I am in transit for less than 15 minutes... most of that is on the trip down 86th street stuck behind a person who is going 35.  I don't have to deal with the IDL, and thankfully I don't have to deal with 169 anymore.  Plus there are several carpool opportunities if you want to save travel costs.

Because your commute is okay at non-standard times then they shouldn't spend the handful of pocket change to provide for the rest of Owasso?

[Cubs]

People in Owasso don't want to ride the bus because it isn't necessary. It is easy to drive .... 15 minutes of traffic free driving ... no need for a bus. I think some people would consider riding if gas was still $4.00 a gallon, but it isn't, so there would be very little money saved by riding the bus.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Cubs

People in Owasso don't want to ride the bus because it isn't necessary. It is easy to drive .... 15 minutes of traffic free driving ... no need for a bus. I think some people would consider riding if gas was still $4.00 a gallon, but it isn't, so there would be very little money saved by riding the bus.

ah I see you are already lulled back to complancency with your $1.60 gas.  Your attitude is exactly why America is where it is today.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

Unfortunately, folks in Owasso aren't seeing the forest for the trees.

Here's an insightful quote from the Owasso Chamber of Commerce website:

"One of Owasso's key industrial attributes is accessibility. Air, water and super-highway transportation are well within easy distance, making the city a transportation hub of northeastern Oklahoma.

Promoting and lobbying for transportation improvements in our area is an important mission of the Chamber. In 2002, the Owasso Chamber led the way for the nearly $900,000 improvement to Hwy 20 between U.S. 169 and the Verdigris River. This year, we will see the widening of 76th St. North from Owasso to Hwy 75 take place as part of the 4-To Fix the County propositions past in Nov of 2000. The Owasso Chamber played an important role in passage of these important county propositions. In the future, your chamber will be leading the way for other roadway expansions, including U.S. 169 from Interstate 244 north to Owasso.
"

Guess who pays for all this highway construction and widening!  

Given that most Owassoans work in the City of Tulsa, it's too bad that they would rather spend OUR tax dollars expanding THEIR highways to subsidize their living choices, rather than spending their own money to help their folks get to their jobs in our city.

Hmmm...

Thats so frustrating. They balk at the cost of mass transit but dont give it even a seconds thought to spend millions expanding and maintaining more roads.

I think our best opportunity at the moment is to work with BA and perhaps Jenks to further mass transit options. Would really like to see both these cities have urban nodes, pedestrian friendly districts, right on some mass transit route. Starting with a nice express bus route and bus stations that could in the future, possibly become rail stations. I actually think BA wants to have such a scenario for its city and downtown. To join with them, go to meetings, educate,encourage and advocate for it more often would be a great way to help get it started and just get the idea out there so that when descisions are made, they take the idea into account.

[waterboy]

I never thought I would agree with Cubs on anything but this is the moment. Enjoy it Cubs, I don't see it lasting.

You can't force a community into mass transit if they don't want it or perceive a need for it. Especially when the cost/benefit ratio is poor. So work on the perception or diminish the funding for the current model.

Yes, Artist, the way to get their attention is to work on plowing fertile ground like BA or Jenks where the benefits are already understood, then show Owasso how it benefits them versus the current model.

Demeaning their view is about as effective as a Liberal calling Okies dumb. It may be true but just not helpful![]