Obama birth certificate again

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

The electoral college, in my opinion, has outlived its usefulness.

The electoral college should at a minimum reflect the popular vote.  Winner take all states should be a thing of the past.  Best system or not, at least the candidates know the rules.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaFan-inTexas

If the Supreme Court overturns the results of the election, there will be big trouble.

It won't happen; at least I pray that it won't happen.

"Big trouble"? Try, anarchy. Even I would be out in the streets calling for the impeachment of those justices that voted to overturn the election.

[tim huntzinger]

Ayers most certainly wrote the O's books.

The document that factcheck looked at is different than the document that is produced by the attending physician, and can be issued to any child less than one year old byt he State of Hawaii.  Further, factcheck is an apparatus of the Annenberg foundation of which the O and Ayers are board members.

O's grandmum says she saw him born in her village, so unless she has so many sons who bring home so many pregnant white girls that she cannot keep them separate . . .

In any case her legal guardians posited him as an Islamic child, a citizen of Indonesia when they enrolled him in school. He lied on his Bar application about aliases, even, so he should not even be allowed to practice law.

This all is why Hillary kept her challenge going for so long, they had done the vetting and they probably thought - wrongly - that McCain and his group could successfully exploit this all.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Ayers most certainly wrote the O's books.

The document that factcheck looked at is different than the document that is produced by the attending physician, and can be issued to any child less than one year old byt he State of Hawaii.  Further, factcheck is an apparatus of the Annenberg foundation of which the O and Ayers are board members.

O's grandmum says she saw him born in her village, so unless she has so many sons who bring home so many pregnant white girls that she cannot keep them separate . . .

In any case her legal guardians posited him as an Islamic child, a citizen of Indonesia when they enrolled him in school. He lied on his Bar application about aliases, even, so he should not even be allowed to practice law.

This all is why Hillary kept her challenge going for so long, they had done the vetting and they probably thought - wrongly - that McCain and his group could successfully exploit this all.

[tim huntzinger]

One million dollars.  That is how much the O has spent fighting these legal challenges to produce the birth certificate.  Seems kind of extreme to make a point.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

One million dollars.  That is how much the O has spent fighting these legal challenges to produce the birth certificate.  Seems kind of extreme to make a point.

Source?  If true, it would seem odd to me.  Not that I really care, he was selected by his party and elected by the nation to lead.  But it certainly would seem odd to spend $1mil when a piece of paper would suffice (thinking of what else he might want undiscovered on there?).  

Per the case:

I have never heard of the Supreme Court demanding evidence.  If a lower court ruled against Berg and it was appealed to the Supreme Court and they found some lack of evidence... they would REMAND the case to the lower court for the production of such evidence.  They would not demand it themselves unless they claimed original jurisdiction over the matter.  It would be highly unusual and make more headlines than what I have heard (one would imagine).

Electoral College:

Arguing from a small state that it has outlived it's usefulness is ignorance.  It is a tool specifically designed to give small states a voice.  The electoral college is to the presidency what the Senate is to the Congress.   Should we also get rid of the Senate because it disproportionately represents the nation?

Iowa, Nevada, Missouri, New Mexico... those states would mean NOTHING if we went to a straight democracy.  Some states would not change (Oklahoma), but in general the move would limit small states roll in the process.

Not too mention the controversy would be raised.  An election win of 2 or 3% is within the margin of error for the voting process.  A nationwide recount would be a nightmare.  With the electoral college we can discount such errors in many instances.

[we vs us]

I have to say, Tim, that it's really a moot point.  The man won one of the largest majorities in American history. There's no plausible way a court will try to invalidate an election like that -- even if -- and this is me positing a BIG IF -- there're issues with O's birth certificate.  

Yes, this is me telling you the law, even if broken, doesn't particularly matter.

Also, beware of court cases brought by winger loonies. All during the Clinton administration, this was a favorite tactic of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (in actuality, not really vast, but still something of a conspiracy):  bring trumped up charges against political target, and use the fact that charges were brought to legitimize said charges.  "If it made it into court, it MUST have some merit!"  Well, no, it almost never did. And in this case it doesn't either.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

One million dollars.  That is how much the O has spent fighting these legal challenges to produce the birth certificate.  Seems kind of extreme to make a point.

Obama had a scanned copy of the certificate on his website and provided Fact Check the physical certificate. They found it be valid. The state of Hawaii has also validated the birth certificate.

The Annenberg Foundation, of which Fact Check is a part, is not a liberal group. It's founder was Walter Annenberg who was a well known Republican and friend to Reagan.

You have made a lot of crazy accusations here and to maintain any credibility are going to have to dig up some real evidence that:

1 Obama's grandmother said he was born in Kenya
2 That Obama spent a million dollars defending his birth
3 That Ayers wrote Obama's books

And NOT evidence from idiotic right wing blogs.

The really stupid part is, even IF Obama was born in Kenya (which you have to be a real nut job to still think is true), he still is eligible to be president through his mother.

Hell, McCain was born in Panama.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by we vs us

Also, beware of court cases brought by winger loonies. All during the Clinton administration, this was a favorite tactic of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (in actuality, not really vast, but still something of a conspiracy):  bring trumped up charges against political target, and use the fact that charges were brought to legitimize said charges.  "If it made it into court, it MUST have some merit!"  Well, no, it almost never did. And in this case it doesn't either.

\

Whoa, there. Are you sincerely claiming that the right is the group that brings "trumped up charges"? I think Tom Delay would like to speak with you.

[guido911]

Here is a Youtube clip of some guy commenting on Obama spending $800K to stop the disclosure. He does not provide his source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7KO2bUOb4k

Incidentally, could you imagine the savaging Sarah Palin would have gotten if she were photographed speaking into an upside down phone?

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by swake



And NOT evidence from idiotic right wing blogs.

The really stupid part is, even IF Obama was born in Kenya (which you have to be a real nut job to still think is true), he still is eligible to be president through his mother.

Do you know any 'right wing' blog that is not 'idiotic'?

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

quote:Originally posted by swake



And NOT evidence from idiotic right wing blogs.

The really stupid part is, even IF Obama was born in Kenya (which you have to be a real nut job to still think is true), he still is eligible to be president through his mother.

Do you know any 'right wing' blog that is not 'idiotic'?

I am absolutely positive that somewhere there is a well thought out, considered, and reasonable right wing blog whose positions I can respect whether or not I may or may not personally agree with the writers's positions. Just as I know there are plenty of idiotic left wing blogs. I can't name a specific right wing political blog that I respect because I don't really read political blogs much. For that matter I can't name a left wing blog I respect either.

Political blogs tend to be written by small minded demagogues that don't like to come to places like TulsaNow where they may be confronted and forced to defend their facts and positions. I can only name a few political blogs and I don't really care for any of them. Your idol Drudge least of all.

All the left wing "George Bush bombed the World Trade Center" blogs are just about as reasonable as your "Obama was born in Kenya and is a secret Muslim sleeper cell agent" crap. Hysterical stupidity is a trait that strikes all political movements equally and blogs are that trait's favorite current outlet. I miss the days when these conspiracy nuts were confined to being strange people on street corners mumbling vague threats and warnings under their breath.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by swake

The really stupid part is, even IF Obama was born in Kenya (which you have to be a real nut job to still think is true), he still is eligible to be president through his mother.

Hell, McCain was born in Panama.

Not necessarily.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/06/02/expats_ed3_.php?page=1

As for McCain, I though he was born on a U.S. military installation.

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by swake



All the left wing "George Bush bombed the World Trade Center" blogs are just about as reasonable as your "Obama was born in Kenya and is a secret Muslim sleeper cell agent" crap. Hysterical stupidity is a trait that strikes all political movements equally and blogs are that trait's favorite current outlet. I miss the days when these conspiracy nuts were confined to being strange people on street corners mumbling vague threats and warnings under their breath.

Funny thing is Berg is 911 Troofer! And I am not alledging he is part of a Muslim 'cell.' I think it is indisputable that for a while as a yoot he was raised Islamic, but he is not Muslim now.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by we vs us

Also, beware of court cases brought by winger loonies. All during the Clinton administration, this was a favorite tactic of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (in actuality, not really vast, but still something of a conspiracy):  bring trumped up charges against political target, and use the fact that charges were brought to legitimize said charges.  "If it made it into court, it MUST have some merit!"  Well, no, it almost never did. And in this case it doesn't either.

\

Whoa, there. Are you sincerely claiming that the right is the group that brings "trumped up charges"? I think Tom Delay would like to speak with you.

He and I can chat, so long as he admits that he's been under indictment for more than three years, challenged the charges multiple times and succeeded in only getting one lesser charge dropped.  He had the judge removed from the case because he was a Democrat, had the venue moved from Travis County because it's predominantly Democratic, and has spent most of the 3 years smearing Ronnie Earle, the DA who's pursued the case (Earle is, btw, not seeking re-election).

Delay's made a stellar career out of hyperpartisanship -- K Street Project, anyone? Or how 'bout some of his lesser known redistricting attempts? -- so it's no surprise that he'd conjure the Democratic Witchhunt Smokescreen to protect his butt.  You'd think it'd be harder to bring that to bear when the statewide judicial process has pretty much ratified the original indictment. But I guess it's true what Colbert has always said:  reality has a well-known liberal bias.