Tulsa Transit on Google

[shadows]

Tulsa was one of the earlier systems to succumb to GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil.  Mid 30s I believe.  The Sand Springs Trolley ran until the 50s from what I've read.  I think Heiron remembers some trolleys but I can't find any other evidence of trolleys in Tulsa beyond what I just mentioned.

The east side signs of the city trolley are on 5th street west of Lewis where the street is widened for the trolley to stand, waiting the return secluded run to down town.  The trolley was in operation until latter part of the 30’s. running down fifth to down town.  When the system was dismantled a bus system was established by a man name “Browning”. (Spelling ?) A system using trolleys frames on rubber tires was established but it never got off the ground.  Seems it cost me a nickel to ride the trolley and we always got a transfer.  The SS trolley had larger vehicles and the conductors on the trolleys would negotiate with the children on the amount of money they had which kept them from pulling the wan off the overhead electoral wire. 

[sgrizzle]

Gads I must have slept though that one. Tulsa has a transit system?  There I thought those were traveling sign boards that one could rent the space on. 
Still at times I thought those painted box cars were the reincarnation of the hippies.

In the meanwhile they should be painted all of one neutral color where the citizen could see and recognize it as a city bus as it approaches which would make them more aware that a transit system was in place.   They see enough billboards as they go down any major street.  Advertise the city with a standard color, not that of a private ventures.

Most people recognize it as a bus do to the fact it's a giant f-ing bus, not color.

[AquaMan]

Mostly what happened was the GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil created a bus company (National City Bus, I think) that bought up the trolley operating companies and then substituted buses.  The trolley manufacturers had problems since cities weren't buying trolleys.  Brill (Philadelphia, PA) bought up a bunch of other trolley manufacturers and eventually made some buses too.  St Louis Car Co (trolley car, not automobile) made trolleys to the very late 40s and maybe a few years into the 50s. Pullman made some PCC trolleys which would have been 30s and 40s mostly. 

I'll have to re-check but I don't believe the automobile companies bought the major trolley manufacturing companies.  They may have bought up a few of the smaller ones.

That's interesting to look back and see why and how the trolley systems disappeared. I believe that GM bought out the locomotive manufacturers to indirectly control the growth and usage of rail tracks. I don't remember if they bought the trolley manufacturers.

[AquaMan]

Gads I must have slept though that one. Tulsa has a transit system?  There I thought those were traveling sign boards that one could rent the space on. 
Still at times I thought those painted box cars were the reincarnation of the hippies.

In the meanwhile they should be painted all of one neutral color where the citizen could see and recognize it as a city bus as it approaches which would make them more aware that a transit system was in place.   They see enough billboards as they go down any major street.  Advertise the city with a standard color, not that of a private ventures.

As usual, if you wade through Shadow's Native American anger, language difficulties and general spin you find a kernel of insight.

I believe you are right about the design and signage of our transit buses. They really should be one easily recognizable color and style. The one and only reason for the buses being plastered or wrapped with advertising is to contribute to poor revenue generation. That started on our buses back in the early eighties. Its like when the railroads gave up on passenger service and went with the revenue from freight where they had a natural advantage in cost over trucking. But its not to create an image for the city or serve the passenger. Many buses are quite busy because they serve particular hourly worker's needs just like the old trolleys did. Many more travel around with a fake bike on the front, few passengers, on money losing routes, simply to justify advertising fees. Its the formula for a system that doubts the consumer demand is really there imo.

If we were to concentrate on making them a ubiquitous presence on the streets it would contribute to the impression that they are convenient, go where the consumer needs to go and reliable. There is a reason that executive Limo's are usually all white or all black and don't have advertising wraps on them. Easily recognizable and focussed on serving a particular segment.

It would take a commitment to service and image enhancement over revenue production but it doesn't have to be a losing proposition. One part of the fleet might be dedicated to the most lucrative advertising routes but retain the image by using the same color. I have some pics somewhere of NY and Chicago buses that followed that view. Their buses were smaller, more comfortable  and quite unique using low riding chassis, front wheel drive and axles located at the very front and back of the body to enhance the cabin.

[Red Arrow]

From:

"When Oklahoma Took the Trolley " by Allison Chandler and Stephen D. Maguire

p136 writing about the Tulsa Street Railway

"In 1929, the assets of the company were sold for a paltry $233,334 to a group of investors which formed the United Service Co.  In 1933 United Service took over the remaining city trackage of the Oklahoma Union Railway Co. (formerly the Oklahoma Union Traction).  Except for the Sand Springs line, the city now had a unified transit network, but the Great Depression cut riding further and no financial remedy seemed possible."


"Finally on February 5, 1936, the company was  sold at auction to National City Lines, a new national holding company being formed by the five Fitzgerald brothers, Roy, Edward, John, Ralph and Kent, of Minnesota, to buy up derelict local trolley lines as cheaply as possible and convert them to bus systems.

It was a new idea, and Tulsa was one of the first cities where it was tried. The Fitzgerald brothers had powerful backing from some of their major suppliers, such as Yellow Coach (later merged with General Motors) and the tire manufacturers.  They were looking for cities with aging streetcars and life-expired tracks where the cost of fleet renewal with motor buses would be the cheapest solution.  Of course, Yellow Coach would  supply the buses, which would run on tires made by the same tire companies which invested in NCL.

NCL formed a local subsidiary, Tulsa City Lines, to take over operations effective the following day, February 6, 1936.  Within hours TCL had enough buses on the streets to take over all operations, and the last city streetcar made its run up and down Main Street late that night."

The Sand Springs RR ran trolleys into the mid 50s.

Edit: typos

[cannon_fodder]

So tulsa called our infrastructure to deteriorate and then replaced it with the cheapest alternative?  Some things never change

[Red Arrow]

So tulsa called our infrastructure to deteriorate and then replaced it with the cheapest alternative?  Some things never change

It wasn't just Tulsa.  It was happening all over the country.  Most of the trolley companies were privately owned.  They paid franchise fees to cities, had to maintain not only the tracks and overhead power but frequently had to maintain the rest of the road their tracks ran in for their major competition, cars and buses.   Often the cities set the price of the fares.  There were a lot of reasons trolley companies were not profitable.  Sometimes it was because there just wasn't enough demand for the trolleys along a route.  When the tracks became rough riding the wood seats were even less comfortable.  Buses  were newer.  They had more comfortable seats and depending on how well the trolley companies maintained the roads,  provided a smoother ride.  The bus companies probably still had to pay franchise fees but they didn't have to maintain the roads.

The PCC car was developed in an effort to compete with buses.  It was modern (1930s), rode a lot nicer than the older cars and had comfortable seats.  They were built primarily by the Pullman Co. and by St. Louis Car Co.  Brill Co. had some design disagreements didn't want to pay the royalties to the Electric Railway President's Conference Committee so Brill designed their own car but it met limited success.  The PCC cars were largely successful where trolley systems were kept.  Boston, Philadelphia, Kansas City, Pittsburgh, and Toronto are the ones I remember reading about.  There were PCC type cars built all over the world under license.  Many of those trolleys ran for 30 or 40 years.  They are now frequently in demand as rebuilds for Heritage Trolley lines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCC_streetcar

[Hoss]

Tulsa Transit routes now integrated on Google Maps.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/City_bus_routes_now_on_Google_Maps/20130717_11_0_Tulsan575694

[BKDotCom]

Tulsa Transit routes now integrated on Google Maps.

No thanks to Tulsa Transit.  This was done completely on the spare time and at no charge by a local web developer.

[sgrizzle]

No thanks to Tulsa Transit.  This was done completely on the spare time and at no charge by a local web developer.

Developers, and I have it on good authority that there was some cost. Pizza and beer.

[Red Arrow]

Developers, and I have it on good authority that there was some cost. Pizza and beer.

I hope it was good beer and not Millercoorsbud Lite.

[BKDotCom]

Tulsa Web Devs is giving all the credit to John Whitlock



and here's a reddit thread

[BKDotCom]

Looks like there's going to be a segment on today's "The List" (KJRH)

[custosnox]

No if only the transit time would show up as less than the walk time. 

[swake]

No if only the transit time would show up as less than the walk time. 

You want it to be accurate don't you? It's Tulsa Transit, not Tulsa Rapid Transit.