Ballpark's Financing Arranged

[sgrizzle]

Michael Bates does good research but he is also on the hunt for some sort of midtown based conspiracy where philanthropists giving away millions is all for their benefit.

Here is the park I was referring to and I refer to it since I believe it is the only minor league park currently under construction:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntington_Park_(Columbus,_Ohio)

As for the downtown services, we are about 2-3 weeks away from the consultant's report listing the recommendations for the services DTU (or it's replacement) should perform.

Yes, the estimate of the ballpark went up but the design has changed from a very plain field to a year-round event facility. I'm hoping more plans come out with the groundbreaking because it's definitely an impressive facility.

As to the surrounding development, they are spending money on streetscaping, fountains, etc. $10M will not redevelop the whole area around the park.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

Maybe TheArtist should change his name to TheEnabler.

I suppose there MIGHT be a good reason the construction of our new ballpark is substantially higher than any other minor league park ever built (and, yes, that is accounting for inflation), but nobody has been able to divine what that reason might be.

Do you research stuff or just make it up? They are almost done with one in Ohio right now for $55M. I don't know what the land purchase price is, but the construction costs on ours are only $39.2M.

The sock's only frame of reference is what Oklahoma City has ever done or spent.

Nice to see the Kool-Aid drinkers are alive and well.  No comparison at all to OKC.  I've compared to other Double A ballparks, particularly those built by/for teams in the same league as the Drillers.  If doing research and reading actual facts doesn't make your head explode, go read Bates' detailed report on the costs of ballparks.  Here, you don't have to do the research or even a web search:

http://www.batesline.com/archives/2008/08/how-much-should-a-ballpark-cost.html

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Michael Bates does good research but he is also on the hunt for some sort of midtown based conspiracy where philanthropists giving away millions is all for their benefit.

Here is the park I was referring to and I refer to it since I believe it is the only minor league park currently under construction:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntington_Park_(Columbus,_Ohio)

LOL  Well done.   Just a few problems with your "research".  

(1)  That's a Triple A stadium, not Double A
(2)  It will seat 10,000, not 6,000.
(3)  The information I can find on it quickly indicates a total design/construction cost of just under $50 Million.  Let's see... Which is a better deal... a AAA ballpark seating 10,000 for $50 Million or a AA ballpark seating 6,000 for $40 Million?  

I'll let you do the math... The cost of the Columbus park is much more in line with the other recently-built minor league parks, taking into account its larger size, leaving Tulsa's as perhaps, the most expensive minor league park ever built.  

As I said in my first post, perhaps there is a reason for these higher costs, but nothing has been revealed thus far to that effect.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Michael Bates does good research but he is also on the hunt for some sort of midtown based conspiracy where philanthropists giving away millions is all for their benefit.

Here is the park I was referring to and I refer to it since I believe it is the only minor league park currently under construction:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntington_Park_(Columbus,_Ohio)

LOL  Well done.   Just a few problems with your "research".  

(1)  That's a Triple A stadium, not Double A
(2)  It will seat 10,000, not 6,000.
(3)  The information I can find on it quickly indicates a total design/construction cost of just under $50 Million.  Let's see... Which is a better deal... a AAA ballpark seating 10,000 for $50 Million or a AA ballpark seating 6,000 for $40 Million?  

I'll let you do the math.

1. You said "minor league" and didn't specify which one. Go edit your post if you want to change your argument.
2. The seating size is a minor part of the overall stadium. The Driller's stadium is intentionally downsized in standard seating methods and I believe actually has the same or equivalent premium and club seating.
3. Why would we spend $10M to add 4,000 seats we don't want?

[RecycleMichael]

OK wiseguys...stop bashing the Tulsa project while not providing any proof other than mentioning a Michael Bates column.

Here is the proof.

http://www.baseballparks.com/NWA-1.asp

It is the nearest park to Tulsa (Springdale, Arkansas). It is in the same league as Tulsa (doubleA Texas League). It was designed by the same architect as ours (HOK)...it is built for 6,800 seats.

It opened last year and cost $41 million. The entire development cost $50 million.

Very similar to Tulsa in every way.

Why do Oil Capital and DowntownNow oppose this project so much?

[nathanm]

Springdale spent $33 million on a stadium out in the sticks just recently. I can't help but think that a) the new Drillers stadium will be better and b) it costs more to build something in the downtown core rather than out in a field where nothing else is around.

They spent a total of $50 million on the stadium and road improvements related to the stadium.

Or..on preview, what Michael said.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

OK wiseguys...stop bashing the Tulsa project while not providing any proof other than mentioning a Michael Bates column.

Here is the proof.

http://www.baseballparks.com/NWA-1.asp

It is the nearest park to Tulsa (Springdale, Arkansas). It is in the same league as Tulsa (doubleA Texas League). It was designed by the same architect as ours (HOK)...it is built for 6,800 seats.

It opened last year and cost $41 million. The entire development cost $50 million.

Very similar to Tulsa in every way.

Why do Oil Capital and DowntownNow oppose this project so much?

I do not oppose the project AT ALL.  I oppose the way the project is being handled.  I am completely totally in favor of a downtown ballpark and have never posted anything to the contrary.

Nice try with your so-called "proof".  But that was either woefully ignorant or dishonest.  

First, you even concede that the supposed $41 million got them more than a stadium (in addition to the fact that the stadium it got them is larger than we are gotting.)  Parking lots are not cheap, my friend and we aren't getting any for our $40 Million (at least nothing to speak of...)  

Bates cites multiple sources, with links, showing the construction cost of the Arkansas stadium to have been $32 Million (again for a stadium approximately 13% larger than our proposed stadium).

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Michael Bates does good research but he is also on the hunt for some sort of midtown based conspiracy where philanthropists giving away millions is all for their benefit.

Here is the park I was referring to and I refer to it since I believe it is the only minor league park currently under construction:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntington_Park_(Columbus,_Ohio)

LOL  Well done.   Just a few problems with your "research".  

(1)  That's a Triple A stadium, not Double A
(2)  It will seat 10,000, not 6,000.
(3)  The information I can find on it quickly indicates a total design/construction cost of just under $50 Million.  Let's see... Which is a better deal... a AAA ballpark seating 10,000 for $50 Million or a AA ballpark seating 6,000 for $40 Million?  

I'll let you do the math.

1. You said "minor league" and didn't specify which one. Go edit your post if you want to change your argument.
2. The seating size is a minor part of the overall stadium. The Driller's stadium is intentionally downsized in standard seating methods and I believe actually has the same or equivalent premium and club seating.
3. Why would we spend $10M to add 4,000 seats we don't want?

1.  Okay, so assume AAA and AA stadiums are equivalent in all ways.  Whatever suits your fancy.

2.  Seating size is a minor part of the overall stadium?  Give it a rest man.  You are talking complete and utter nonsense now.  If you have facts showing that the Ohio and Tulsa stadiums have comparable premium and club seating areas, by all means, let's see them.  As someone said earlier in this thread, "Do you research stuff or just make it up?"

3. ROFL.  There is no way anyone could have read my posts and reasonably come away with the conclusion that I was suggesting we pay MORE for our ballpark or add seats to it.  I am suggesting we pay closer to the $5,000 per seat that Columbus and pretty much every other town is paying, rather than the $6,666 per seat we're paying.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by nathanm

Springdale spent $33 million on a stadium out in the sticks just recently. I can't help but think that a) the new Drillers stadium will be better and b) it costs more to build something in the downtown core rather than out in a field where nothing else is around.

They spent a total of $50 million on the stadium and road improvements related to the stadium.

Or..on preview, what Michael said.

Thanks for supporting my post showing that Springdale constructed their stadium for $33 Million rather than the $40 Million Michael falsely posted.

The only reason construction would be more in the city than in a smaller area is land cost and that is not included in the price of either stadium.  

If the new Drillers stadium is indeed better, and if it is indeed better to the extent of the extra money being spent on it, then bravo, that would answer the question.  But, as I have said in several of these posts, we've seen  and heard NOTHING to show us how or in what ways it might be better.  I'm all ears and eyes.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by nathanm

Springdale spent $33 million on a stadium out in the sticks just recently. I can't help but think that a) the new Drillers stadium will be better and b) it costs more to build something in the downtown core rather than out in a field where nothing else is around.

They spent a total of $50 million on the stadium and road improvements related to the stadium.

Or..on preview, what Michael said.

Thanks for supporting my post showing that Springdale constructed their stadium for $33 Million rather than the $40 Million Michael falsely posted.

The only reason construction would be more in the city than in a smaller area is land cost and that is not included in the price of either stadium.  

If the new Drillers stadium is indeed better, and if it is indeed better to the extent of the extra money being spent on it, then bravo, that would answer the question.  But, as I have said in several of these posts, we've seen  and heard NOTHING to show us how or in what ways it might be better.  I'm all ears and eyes.

Don't get on your high horse yet. Michael's $41 million figure includes the parking lots and other site improvements beyond the stadium itself.

[RecycleMichael]

Northwest Arkansas voters approved an increase in tax dollars to build their ballpark. They did it with a dedicated one penny sales tax throughout the city in place long enough to raise $50 million

Tulsa has only asked the property owners in the inner dispersal loop to pay one million dollars a year for twenty five years.

Which way would you rather pay for a ballpark?

[RecycleMichael]

This was the proposal that the Springdale chamber of commerce brought before the voters to pass the sales tax to pay for the new stadium.

http://www.grandslamforspringdale.com/economic_impact

It shows itemized construction costs of $41 million, excluding land costs.

[sgrizzle]

1. Yes , I'm sure AA and AAA baseball stadium are hugely different. The differences in stadium and rules are so vast that I can find.. well none. None whatsoever.
2. As far as premium seating, from the looks of the columbus stadium I believe they actually have less as there is only one floor above the risers. They also have no right-outfield seating at all as there is a road there. (other than the weird wall they borrowed from "Laugh-in")

There is also no attention being paid for soccer capability in the Ohio design due to the fact they have an MLS stadium in the same city.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

This was the proposal that the Springdale chamber of commerce brought before the voters to pass the sales tax to pay for the new stadium.

http://www.grandslamforspringdale.com/economic_impact

It shows itemized construction costs of $41 million, excluding land costs.

Odd then, that they signed a construction contract for approximately $32 Million.

You seem to be intentionally impervious to facts.  I have already reminded you, Nathan has posted it, and most strikingly, you yourself mentioned in your earlier post, the $41 Million Dollar number included parking lots and other development outside of the stadium!  Are we getting parking lots for our $40 Million?

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

1. Yes , I'm sure AA and AAA baseball stadium are hugely different. The differences in stadium and rules are so vast that I can find.. well none. None whatsoever.
2. As far as premium seating, from the looks of the columbus stadium I believe they actually have less as there is only one floor above the risers. They also have no right-outfield seating at all as there is a road there. (other than the weird wall they borrowed from "Laugh-in")

There is also no attention being paid for soccer capability in the Ohio design due to the fact they have an MLS stadium in the same city.

Read more carefully, I already granted you that there may be no AAA/AA distinction.

And, again, "Do you research stuff or just make it up?"  Post again when you have some actual facts supporting your assumptions that our stadium will have more premium seating and be more capable of hosting soccer, and why and by how much soccer capability would raise the costs of construction.