The UAW Ad for the Auto Industry Bailout

[guido911]

Can't convince Congress to give you money by begging, then try the guilt trip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJc6yo1wjSg

No more bailouts. Let this industry go the way of the Do-Do.

[Ed W]

Looks fairly straightforward to me.  The autoworkers show up, do their assigned jobs, and go home.  They don't decide what kind of cars or trucks to build or do any of the engineering that goes into those products.  They don't do the marketing.  They don't make the business decisions.

But if the industry doesn't get the loans (loans - not outright cash like the banking businesses) those jobs will go away along with health care and pensions.  And who will pick up the tab for them?  Most likely the taxpayers.  The manufacturing capacity will undoubtedly be bought up by a competitor, most likely a foreign one.  The union contracts that provide for those workers and their families will be gone.

In any business you can always find a way to do the work for less if you're willing to accept the consequences.  In my business, the perfect example was Value Jet.

Value Jet

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Ed W

Looks fairly straightforward to me.  The autoworkers show up, do their assigned jobs, and go home.  They don't decide what kind of cars or trucks to build or do any of the engineering that goes into those products.  They don't do the marketing.  They don't make the business decisions.

But if the industry doesn't get the loans (loans - not outright cash like the banking businesses) those jobs will go away along with health care and pensions.  And who will pick up the tab for them?  Most likely the taxpayers.  The manufacturing capacity will undoubtedly be bought up by a competitor, most likely a foreign one.  The union contracts that provide for those workers and their families will be gone.

In any business you can always find a way to do the work for less if you're willing to accept the consequences.  In my business, the perfect example was Value Jet.

Value Jet

Oh that's right Ed. It's management's fault. The UAW has done nothing to contribute to the failure of this industry. Let the Big 3 and the UAW fail.

[we vs us]

Do you not like bailouts at all, or do you just not like THIS bailout?

[USRufnex]

Guido, the unions are making a helluva lot more concessions than YOU ever would...

If we had single payer instead of forcing my grandpa to walk the picket line for health benefits, our workers and auto industry would be on a level playing field...

God forbid you give a rat's donkey about that.

And who has taught us for DECADES about the evils of "protectionism"???

The so-called liberal media, that's who.

I hope to god someday your job gets outsourced to India, then you're asked to vote to chip in tax monies to George Kaiser to beautify the river.

[Red Arrow]

I would be among the last to turn down a pay raise. I have also participated in a 25% pay cut to try to save a company.  I was let go a few months later and the company ultimately failed.

Unions certainly have a place where management is not good and/or individual workers cannot stand out to obtain advancement or pay raises based on their merit or productivity.  In a well run place, unions are not needed.  So much for the ideals.

Unions are nothing more than a big business of getting benefits and pay increases for their members. They were certainly a necessity in the late 1800s and much of the 1900s. In some cases, unions have killed the goose that layed the golden eggs. That is one of the laws of unintended results.

I will not defend the gazillion $ salaries of the big wigs but there is enough expense blame to go around for all.

Reorganization bankruptcy could be a good chance to get labor costs in line with reality.  It must also include the management side. That is an issue for the share holders of a publicly owned corporation.  Not as easy as it sounds, I know.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

Guido, the unions are making a helluva lot more concessions than YOU ever would...

If we had single payer instead of forcing my grandpa to walk the picket line for health benefits, our workers and auto industry would be on a level playing field...

God forbid you give a rat's donkey about that.

And who has taught us for DECADES about the evils of "protectionism"???

The so-called liberal media, that's who.

I hope to god someday your job gets outsourced to India, then you're asked to vote to chip in tax monies to George Kaiser to beautify the river.

Hey soccer punk, who asked you anything? You continue to be a whiny dude. The sole point I was making is that it was not only management that played a part in the industry's failure.

Oh, and about my job being out sourced, ain't goin' to happen as long as we have a 6th amendment and people continue to sue each other.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by we vs us

Do you not like bailouts at all, or do you just not like THIS bailout?

All bail outs. If businesses are failing, let them fail. Seriously, will the government bail you and I out if we are financially irresponsible?

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by guido911
[Seriously, will the government bail you and I out if we are financially irresponsible?

Welfare payments?

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

quote:Originally posted by guido911
[Seriously, will the government bail you and I out if we are financially irresponsible?

Welfare payments?

I stand informed. Thanks.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

Guido, the unions are making a helluva lot more concessions than YOU ever would...

If we had single payer instead of forcing my grandpa to walk the picket line for health benefits, our workers and auto industry would be on a level playing field...

God forbid you give a rat's donkey about that.

And who has taught us for DECADES about the evils of "protectionism"???

The so-called liberal media, that's who.

I hope to god someday your job gets outsourced to India, then you're asked to vote to chip in tax monies to George Kaiser to beautify the river.

Hey soccer punk, who asked you anything? You continue to be a whiny dude. The sole point I was making is that it was not only management that played a part in the industry's failure.

Oh, and about my job being out sourced, ain't goin' to happen as long as we have a 6th amendment and people continue to sue each other.

Wow, the ad hominem master returns.

[:O]

[Ed W]

quote:Originally posted by guido911



Oh that's right Ed. It's management's fault. The UAW has done nothing to contribute to the failure of this industry...

I'm astonished that you agreed.  It's a given that supervision has the unabridged right to mismanage the company in any way they wish, and that the union has no say in the process.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Can't convince Congress to give you money by begging, then try the guilt trip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJc6yo1wjSg

No more bailouts. Let this industry go the way of the Do-Do.

Yes, a loan is such a terrible thing.

BTW, bankruptcy isn't really an option unless they can arrange DIP financing, which they can't given the current lending climate.

I'm somewhat surprised that one of either GM or Chrysler hasn't already bullied a few lenders into providing financing. There's a significant first mover advantage here. The first one to declare has some chance at financing. Second one, not so much given the general sentiment that there's no longer room for three US automakers. (I think there would be, if so much of the price of the car wasn't going to health care costs)

Ford, as of yet, is not in the **** shape Chrysler and GM are. Although I think GM is exaggerating somewhat, while Chrysler really is in the last months of operations absent financing.

Anyway, I think it's worth some amount of risk to keep a domestically owned vehicle manufacturing base intact. It's a national security issue. A much bigger one than many of the things we spend far more money on in the defense department.

[Red Arrow]

I believe the auto industry built a lot of war machines during WWII.  I'd hate to lose even more manufacturing capability.  But...I also hate to reward stupid management and outrageous Union agreements.

[jiminy]

quote:Originally posted by Ed W
...It's a given that supervision has the unabridged right to mismanage the company in any way they wish, and that the union has no say in the process....

Except for union wages and productivity