Traffic fines in this city are warped.

[inteller]

It actually pays to be a traffic violater in this town as long as you aren't speeding or running red lights.

Have you ever had to sit at an intersection through your green light because some asshat is blocking in the middle because he couldn't clear the light due to backed up traffic?

The fine for this should be AT LEAST $150.  Guess how much it is....





$30!?!?!?!?!?!?!  pancakes!  Do you know it is a $150 offense if you do not move forward when the light turns green?  So if you run a red light it is $150, if you DON'T run through a green light it is $150.  yet if you impede all cross traffic because your donkey is too stupid to judge whether you can clear the intersection , you get off for $30.

And we are wondering why we can't afford automated ticketing machines?  Because we don't charge enough for the most violated and blatant offenses!  In Singapore they paint a penalty box at ever intersection.  If so much as your bumper is hanging over in that box, a cop walks up from the corner, takes a digital picture and hands you a ticket, prefilled with the violation.  You are guilty and you have no choice but to pay.

We need to position about 10 cops at various intersections along 71st and keep doing this until people get the message.  I'm guessing after about a week of $150 tickets people would get the message that blocking intersections is wrong, wasteful, and dangerous.

[Kashmir]

This sounds like the daily squeeze I encounter going down Memorial to take Lil Kashmir to preschool...people crowd the Creek entrance/exit intersections reallly bad.  Is that what you are talking about?

Give me 51/Yale anyday. (Holliday Hills move sounding better each day)

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by inteller


We need to position about 10 cops at various intersections along 71st and keep doing this until people get the message.  I'm guessing after about a week of $150 tickets people would get the message that blocking intersections is wrong, wasteful, and dangerous.

Amen.

[cannon_fodder]

10 Tips All Tulsa Drivers Should Know:

1) When on a multi-lane highway the left most lane is for passing.  The right lane is for merging and exiting traffic.  If it is a three lane road the center lane should be the defacto driving lane.  On a two lane road you should merge into the passing lane when possible to allow for merging traffic.  

Do NOT drive in the right lane when avoidable on the BA, it hinders merging and exiting traffic.

2) Merging lanes are for... wait for it... merging.  Please do not proceed onto an on-ramp and stop.  You must be going a similar speed to that of the traffic to safely merge.  Accomplished easily if #1 is followed by others.

3) You must look BOTH ways when pulling out.  You can not simply fixate on one direction, turn, and give me the "oops" waive as my brakes lock up.  Not cool.

4) When making a LEFT turn at a red light it is proper to pull out into the intersection.  This facilitates more rapid turning when an opening presents itself as one does not have to pull forward and then execute the turn (opening, gas, done).  Should you be in the intersection when the light turns yellow observe oncoming traffic that should stop and proceed through the intersection.  That is one of the purposes of a yellow light and the all red delay, to allow the intersection to clear.  

DO NOT stay in the intersection.  DO NOT attempt to back up.  But please do enter the intersection to execute a turn.

5) Four way stops are simple, it is a hierarchy:

a) The car first to complete a stop at the intersection has the right of way.
b) If both cares arrive at the intersection at the same time yield to the right
c) cars opposite each other go at the SAME time
d) any car going straight opposite another has the right away over a left turner
e) the left turner should proceed into the intersection along with the opposite vehicle going straight but allow the car to pass before executing the turn
f) when the intersection is clear the vehicles at 90 degrees proceed in the same manner.

Rinse, Repeat.

DO NOT waive me on.  DO NOT waive the left turner on.  Do not sit and wait to see if other people know the rules, proceed cautiously as if they are in the know only stopping if it is apparent operating under the rules will cause an accident.

6) Roundabouts only go counter clockwise.  Same applies to divided intersections (medians, not really a full roundabout... you get it). Fountains are not a shortcut through roundabouts.

7) The "center turning lane" in the middle of a street is used for turning.  You can utilize it when turning left from or when attempting to turn ONTO the street.  Thereby enabling better traffic flow from and on to the street.

If a car currently occupies the turning lane, they have priority to it.  Otherwise priority can be a bit dubious.  Please use caution, but please use the center turning lanes.

When roads provide designated merging lanes, they are for merging.  You do not need to yield to the existing traffic immediately as you have been provided your own lane to facilitate merging.  Please, for the love of god please, do not stop at the start of such a merging lane and attempt to immediately enter traffic... rendering the entire length of the lane specifically provided to facilitate merging unused.  

9) One way streets only go one way.  If you are not familiar with downtown I understand this can be a pain.  However, specific signs and other clues (cars, direction of traffic lights, etc) provide handy clues.  Please pay attention.

10) Your car is not your vanity, a phone booth, a fast food restaurant, nor a day care.  I appreciate that as an American you, as well as myself, are nearly incapable of concentrating on one thing.  Please feel free to do what you must while operating your vehicle SO LONG AS operating your vehicle is your first priority.

It is entirely possible that you may have to interrupt your conversation, stop paying attention, put down your drink, or otherwise hinder secondary activities.  If I am willing to accept that we will have such transgressions, please concede that they MUST come second to actually driving.  Also, some activities are simply not allowed under any circumstances:

Putting on makeup while looking in a mirror, reading the newspaper/book, or turning around to yell at children are all strictly forbidden.  I don't think that is too harsh.
- - -

Bonus materials:

11) In India the larger vehicle has the right of way, this is not India.

12) No one thinks your Neon with the pipe cut off at the catalytic converter is cool.  No one.  

Same goes for any vehicle made loud for the sake of being loud.  Yes, motorcycles too.  If I am tempted to cover my ears when you drive by, it is too loud to be transportation on a public road.

13) You can go 45mph down my 25mph residential street, I can lob pointy objects in front of your vehicle's tires.

14) Odds are you don't "need a truck/suv."  Admit you like it or that it is merely convenient and lets move on.  NEED is probably too strong of a word.

15) Yes, your wheels look really cool.  Too bad the rest of your vehicle is crap.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Kashmir

This sounds like the daily squeeze I encounter going down Memorial to take Lil Kashmir to preschool...people crowd the Creek entrance/exit intersections reallly bad.  Is that what you are talking about?

Give me 51/Yale anyday. (Holliday Hills move sounding better each day)

that is another location, but the particular place I'm talking about is 71st/E 103rd St(some may call it the Lowe's intersection)

Listen, it isn't my fault that the city completely ****ed up this section of road with a billion lights and no coordination with ODOT, but it DOES become my problem when someone decides to ursurp my rights to the intersection by blocking it due to their stupidity.  

Oh, and if a person ever honks at me from behind because I won't go through an intersection that is not clear, that person better learn where the reverse is on their car really quick.

[Wilbur]

What ordinance are you citing for this violation that you say this is only $30.  That doesn't sound right.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder


9) One way streets only go one way.  If you are not familiar with downtown I understand this can be a pain.  However, specific signs and other clues (cars, direction of traffic lights, etc) provide handy clues.  Please pay attention.

I saw something awful last time I was downtown. A person turned the wrong way onto a one way street so as to turn into a driveway a short way down the street. Idiot.

Worse, I was driving behind a cop, who merely flashed his lights at the wrong way driver as the driver turned into the driveway, rather than, you know, ticketing the driver for driving the wrong way! [!]

There's a lot of stuff I think cops ought to treat that way..speeding that's not actually putting anybody in danger, for example. (not speeding 15 over through small neighborhoods) But something as dangerous as driving the wrong way on a one way? pancakes?

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by nathanm
There's a lot of stuff I think cops ought to treat that way..speeding that's not actually putting anybody in danger, for example. (not speeding 15 over through small neighborhoods) But something as dangerous as driving the wrong way on a one way? pancakes?

I respectfully disagree. I think speeding fifteen miles over the limit in a residential neighborhood is a greater offense than going the wrong way for half a block on a downtown street.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I respectfully disagree. I think speeding fifteen miles over the limit in a residential neighborhood is a greater offense than going the wrong way for half a block on a downtown street.

How about 7 mph on a wide residential street with no kids around, good visibility (no parked cars to block the view) vs. going 1/4 block the wrong way on a one-way street with traffic coming the proper way on all lanes of the one-way street?

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

Have you ever had to sit at an intersection through your green light because some asshat is blocking in the middle because he couldn't clear the light due to backed up traffic?

I'm guessing after about a week of $150 tickets people would get the message that blocking intersections is wrong, wasteful, and dangerous.

Have you ever sat through several traffic light cycles waiting for a chance to go through the intersection and leave the intersection clear because other traffic fills the road and leaves you no opportunity to proceed.  Try turning south on Memorial from westbound 91st at the right times.  It's symptomatic of too much traffic.  

I agree its wrong. Wasteful? Dangerous? Probably not so dangerous as nobody is going anywhere fast.  It will tick off a few people, such as you (and me).  

There are a lot of uneducated things Tulsa drivers do to impede the flow of traffic.  Many of them cause other drivers to do stupid things leading to road rage.  The police concentrate on the road ragers (rightly so) but ignore the root cause, not rightly so.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

10 Tips All Tulsa Drivers Should Know:

Mostly I agree with you. I have a few variations.

1.) Leftmost lane should be for passing. Unless the law has changed, in Oklahoma that is not a requirement.  A few years ago a young female driver on 169 was going 55 in the leftmost lane holding pace with a driver in the next lane.  A police officer behind her tried to get her attention to move over but she wouldn't. Finally the officer hit the lights and pulled her over.  The young driver was most outraged, thinking it was her right to drive whatever speed she wanted in any lane as long as it was over the posted minimum. She was almost right.  The most the officer could ticket her for was obstructing traffic. It was written up in the "Scene" section of the TW.  I checked with OHP before calling the TW to tell the young driver to take some driving lessons.   The right lane is for merging, exiting, and slow traffic.  If there is a middle lane and you want to go slow (10 to 15 less than traffic/speed limit), stay right anyway.  You will cause less evasive action by other drivers than by driving in the middle lane.  On a 2 lane side (I would usually call the road 4 lane, 2 in each direction), it should not be necessary to pull to the left lane to allow traffic to merge if they match speed and find a position within existing traffic.  This is true unless there is a lot of traffic, which would preclude thru traffic from moving to the left lane anyway.   It is not the responsibility of through traffic to make a hole for merging traffic.  That's why the Yield sign is for the entry ramp, not the through traffic.  If through traffic permits and I see a string of cars entering the expressway, I will pull into the left lane.  I almost always regret it. I get stuck in the left lane with no way to get back to the right lane.  Someone wanting to 75 is on my bumper and none of the drivers I was courteous to will make a hole for me.

2.) If you try to merge with 65 MPH traffic while you are going 45 to 55, you will cause others to take evasive action.  These drivers that scramble to get around you without getting hit will not appreciate it when you pass them going 75 a mile or two later.  If you cannot accelerate to traffic speed, stay off the expressway.

4.) I don't think it is really ever proper to pull out into the intersection for a LEFT turn while a traffic light is red. Wait for the light to turn green.  Even then it may not be proper if you cannot clear the intersection before the red light.  There have been some spots on the TV news occasionally about that. You MUST be totally clear of the intersection by the time the traffic light is red for you.  I agree that it moves more traffic.  

4a.)If there is a green left turn arrow, it is not necessary to allow the preceeding car to completely clear the intersection before you enter the intersection.  Just follow the car in front of you at a safe following distance, about 2 seconds.

5.) Two left turners opposite each other can go at the same time.

When turning at multi-lane intersections, go to a similar lane.  Ex: At 101st & Memorial if you are going east on 101st and turning left to go north on Memorial, go to the left lane on Memorial.  If you are going west on 101st and turning right to go north on Memorial, take the right lane on Memorial.   Some intersections with multiple turn lanes have white dotted guide lines to direct you to the proper lane.  Follow them.

10.) I have to emphasize that I agree with DRIVE THE CAR FIRST.  Nothing else will matter much if you are injured or killed because you weren't paying attention to your driving.

11.) Large, old, not so nice looking vehicles always have the right of way.  They probably don't have insurance.  The law will not prosecute the driver as they have nothing to take.  If you cannot afford to fix or replace your own vehicle after a collision, have collision insurance for youself. Liability insurance alone is not enough.  Don't assume that the Oklahoma law requiring everyone to have insurance will fix your car (or you) if you are not at fault, even if the other driver gets a ticket and you do not. (Real experience of a friend.)

Everyone has their pet traffic violation to be inforced with all vigor.  Mine are as follows.  

Speeding depends on several items.  A car in good condition on the expressway being 15 to 20 over is probably not too dangerous if there is no traffic, the weather is good, and the road is good.  All are judgement calls that caused Montana to dump the "reasonable and proper" speed limit for one with numbers a few years ago.   I was lucky enough to drive on the Autobahns in Germany in 1995.  There were a couple of  common speeds where there was no speed limit. (Yes, even then some sections of the Autobahn had speed limits.  Mostly around towns and near some interchanges.) The equivalents were 80 mph and about 100 mph.   The Autobahns have a similar "accident" rate to our Interstates.  Of course the Germans actually have to learn to drive to get a driver's license.  

Crowded conditons require less tolerance.  That doesn't require a ticket for 26 in a 25 zone.  Some speed limits are arbitrarily too low, solely for the purpose of generating revenue or requiring motorists to enjoy the sights.  

Running through a red light is a BIG No No in my opinion.  Rolling stops at stop signs also tick me off.  I need to be careful coming to a complete stop so I don't get hit by someone behind me expecting me to roll on through.  I also don't care for people who roll through a stop sign to get in front of me and then go slow.  If you must roll the stop, at least have the courtesy to step on the tall narrow pedal under your right foot.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by nathanm
There's a lot of stuff I think cops ought to treat that way..speeding that's not actually putting anybody in danger, for example. (not speeding 15 over through small neighborhoods) But something as dangerous as driving the wrong way on a one way? pancakes?

I respectfully disagree. I think speeding fifteen miles over the limit in a residential neighborhood is a greater offense than going the wrong way for half a block on a downtown street.

You must have misunderstood my post, since I agreed that speeding, other than excessive speed in residential neighborhoods, is less dangerous.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by nathanm

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder


9) One way streets only go one way.  If you are not familiar with downtown I understand this can be a pain.  However, specific signs and other clues (cars, direction of traffic lights, etc) provide handy clues.  Please pay attention.

I saw something awful last time I was downtown. A person turned the wrong way onto a one way street so as to turn into a driveway a short way down the street. Idiot.

Worse, I was driving behind a cop, who merely flashed his lights at the wrong way driver as the driver turned into the driveway, rather than, you know, ticketing the driver for driving the wrong way! [!]

There's a lot of stuff I think cops ought to treat that way..speeding that's not actually putting anybody in danger, for example. (not speeding 15 over through small neighborhoods) But something as dangerous as driving the wrong way on a one way? pancakes?

Most police officers you see driving aren't just driving around looking for something to do.  Most are on their way to some sort of police call that has higher priority then a particular traffic violation.  Believe me, most would want to stop that guy, but the higher call priority means the officer has to let that person go.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

What ordinance are you citing for this violation that you say this is only $30.  That doesn't sound right.

522.C Parking in intersection.

The fine USED to be $15.  That was ridiculous.  The reason it is so low is because it is technically a non moving violation.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

quote:Originally posted by inteller

Have you ever had to sit at an intersection through your green light because some asshat is blocking in the middle because he couldn't clear the light due to backed up traffic?

I'm guessing after about a week of $150 tickets people would get the message that blocking intersections is wrong, wasteful, and dangerous.

Have you ever sat through several traffic light cycles waiting for a chance to go through the intersection and leave the intersection clear because other traffic fills the road and leaves you no opportunity to proceed.  Try turning south on Memorial from westbound 91st at the right times.  It's symptomatic of too much traffic.  

I agree its wrong. Wasteful? Dangerous? Probably not so dangerous as nobody is going anywhere fast.  It will tick off a few people, such as you (and me).  

There are a lot of uneducated things Tulsa drivers do to impede the flow of traffic.  Many of them cause other drivers to do stupid things leading to road rage.  The police concentrate on the road ragers (rightly so) but ignore the root cause, not rightly so.

it is dangerous in the fact that increases stress and road rage.  In commercial districts it is economically dangerous because enough fed up people will simply not come back (i avoid the whole area around hoodlum hills mall this time of year)