A 2006 third penny tax money grab

[inteller]

Just thought I would let you all in on a slimy secret.

In 2006 voters approved the third penny extension.  In it, there was a specific line item of $3 million to be allocated to economic development.  

That entire $3 million is now being allocated to one particular corner of the city, specifically, to help 1995 Land Co (Bumgarner)'s little development at 101st/Mem.

So if you voted for that thinking that the economic development money would be spent city wide, sorry to disappoint you.

To add insult to injury, the city plans to widen the county maintained portion of 101st, much to the benefit of the nice big development going up just to the south in Bixby.

Is the county putting up any money?

Nope.

Is Bixby putting up any money?

Nope.

But they thank you for widening that street for their nice big development.

Your Tulsa tax dollars at work.

But what if you don't like this?  Council is discussing the appropriation this Thursday.  And as a bonus you can go check out their new chamber digs at 2nd/Cincinnati.

[carltonplace]

Who approved the appropriation? How is this "economic development"? Street widening is an infrastructure improvement..it does not create economic growth.

[cannon_fodder]

How do I get $3,000,000 for my development?  I want to build a new office building near 41st and Harvard.  $3,000,000 should just about cover it.

[swake]

My guess is this is to help the new Super Target location and related shopping complex at 101st and Memorial.

That complex IS in Tulsa and will mean a lot of new sales tax revenue for the city. So that would be a good reason to spend this money there.

That and Inteller will be really upset about it.

[TURobY]

Email sent...

I don't want more of my tax dollars contributing to "same-ol'" development techniques. I'll approve when more sustainable developments are proposed.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by inteller


for your friends that berate the lack of downtown parking tell them help isn't coming soon.  The money they are yanking from that garage is helping this.  They said the garage is delayed into next fiscal year.  They didn't say why, they just said it is delayed.  How convienent.

But a lack of downtown parking is a GOOD thing. It promotes a walkable neighborhood and use of Public Transit. It discourages people from driving to downtown and thereby, it reduces pollutiion.  It reduces wear and tear on the streets.  It reduces the need for police patrol cars since there are no drivers to break traffic laws.  It promotes local development because no one can get anywhere else since they don't have a car. It is the first step to abolishing the hated automobile.  Meanwhile out near suburbia, the suburban lemmings (including some Bixbyites and BA folks) get to the big box store and fill Tulsa's coffers on a continuing basis for a measley one time expense of $3 Mil.

You downtowners should be estatic. A one time expense. You don't have to put up with the BS traffic since you don't go there. You don't want to go there anyway to shop in a low class, big box shopping area for the suburban scum.

[Composer]

This will not translate to a ton of new revenue for Tulsa because Tulsa's SuperTarget already gets shoppers from Bixby and Broken Arrow.  It will only make it more convenient for shoppers in Bixby to shop at Target.  Just think, it might actually take some money away because if a shopper now shops at the new Target, it keeps them from being near the mall and the Kohls making it less likely for additional money to be spent.  

This development is more for convenience and not new money.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by Composer

This will not translate to a ton of new revenue for Tulsa because Tulsa's SuperTarget already gets shoppers from Bixby and Broken Arrow.  It will only make it more convenient for shoppers in Bixby to shop at Target.  Just think, it might actually take some money away because if a shopper now shops at the new Target, it keeps them from being near the mall and the Kohls making it less likely for additional money to be spent.  

This development is more for convenience and not new money.

I'll give you half credit for your answer.

I am more likely to go there at all when it will be 1-1/2 miles away and NOT on 71st St.  I had forgotten there was even a Kohl's at 71st.  The only 2 places I remember going to at that part of 71st are Target and Office Depot. I've been to Target about 4 times since it opened.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Composer

This will not translate to a ton of new revenue for Tulsa because Tulsa's SuperTarget already gets shoppers from Bixby and Broken Arrow.  It will only make it more convenient for shoppers in Bixby to shop at Target.  Just think, it might actually take some money away because if a shopper now shops at the new Target, it keeps them from being near the mall and the Kohls making it less likely for additional money to be spent.  

This development is more for convenience and not new money.

But, the store could have just as easily been built across the street in Bixby and Tulsa would lose revenue. Sometime economic development means retaining what you have.

[carltonplace]

Bottom line. If the voters approved money for a downtown parking structure or economic development that is what we should get. Using the money in another way is agin the law. Putting up a traffic signal and six lane road is not a parking structure and does not fill the definition of economic development.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

Bottom line. If the voters approved money for a downtown parking structure or economic development that is what we should get. Using the money in another way is agin the law. Putting up a traffic signal and six lane road is not a parking structure and does not fill the definition of economic development.

I agree with your first statement, but it certainly is economic development. I'd rather see more manufacturing work, personally, but that doesn't mean that other things aren't tools for economic development.

[carltonplace]

street widening is not economic development.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace
Putting up a traffic signal and six lane road is not a parking structure

Wanna bet?

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by inteller
[
nevermind the fact that wal-mart is closer to Bixby than Target.  Target thinks there is this glorious opportunity having their store right off the turnpike.  

1 mile closer.

The Target planners must not have traveled south on Memorial from the turnpike or they wouldn't think 101st is right off the turnpike.

[Composer]

You are right about Target officials in Minnesota.  It took several officials in the area to convince them to close their East Tulsa store due to Eastland Mall going under and change in demographics.  That store relocated to Owasso.