Neighborhood Misled by City, Developer

[patric]

Wont find this in the Tulsa Whirled:

Residents call it an abomination and say city officials deceived them.  They say apartments going up next door are a complete surprise and will ruin their neighborhood.  This is happening near 81st and Mingo.

"You would expect a little bit of privacy in your own backyard," says Tulsa resident Paul Kennedy.  When he bought his house in October 2007, he never expected to see an apartment building in his backyard.  His builder told him only single-family homes could be built on the empty lot next to his property, based on a letter from the Tulsa Metropolitan Area Planning Commission.

"We were deceived.  The letter is pure deception," says Kennedy.
The Story

[Composer]

I just don't understand why we keep developing along Mingo near 81st yet we cannot get Mingo widened between 71st and 81st.  It really should be widened all the way to 111th.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by patric

Wont find this in the Tulsa Whirled:

Residents call it an abomination and say city officials deceived them.  They say apartments going up next door are a complete surprise and will ruin their neighborhood.  This is happening near 81st and Mingo.

"You would expect a little bit of privacy in your own backyard," says Tulsa resident Paul Kennedy.  When he bought his house in October 2007, he never expected to see an apartment building in his backyard.  His builder told him only single-family homes could be built on the empty lot next to his property, based on a letter from the Tulsa Metropolitan Area Planning Commission.

"We were deceived.  The letter is pure deception," says Kennedy.
The Story

Yes, high end apartments are so detrimental to home values that a developer built some single family homes behind my apartment. I was deceived. There wasn't enough land for a proper subdivision. Now instead of looking at a large wooded lot, I have to look at houses.

When will people learn that in a city, undeveloped land will be developed, and that they probably won't like it?

[cannon_fodder]

If intellers version is correct that it is a crappy deal.  When did they change the restrictions that would allowed dense residential in that space?  Or were they merely a plan to have single family houses and not really a restriction on such development?

If the city changed their mind and altered the zoning without proper notice, then this is horrible.

If the developer either lied or changed his mind, it is poor conduct on his party and I believe actionable.  The runoff issue is actionable (you can not alter the lay of your land to the detriment of your neighbor).   BUT, if it was not a legal restriction the guy should have taken anything said with at something short of face value.

My default position is: development will happen on empty land.  I assume the fact that the area was all newly developed was a prime reason for moving there, then people complain when new development goes in.  HOWEVER, as I stated above, if he did his homework and was deceived something is rotten.

[blindnil]

I fail to see why the neighbors are causing such a stink now. That complex is nearly done. Why didn't they complain earlier?

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by blindnil

I fail to see why the neighbors are causing such a stink now. That complex is nearly done. Why didn't they complain earlier?

You dont really think they waited until it was three stories high to say something, do you?
Sounds like alarm bells were going off at least when the grade was being raised.  

The city told them to expect single residences.  At what point do you think they realized they were lied to?

[TUalum0982]

The builder of these apartments (flournoy out of Columbus GA) are also the same group that built Estancia.  Everytime I drive by there, I wonder how those neighbors feel knowing that some of them look out their windows and see these TALL donkey apartments.  I feel bad for the property owners, but then again, empty land is bound to be developed into something.  You can't please everyone.

[inteller]

well no **** sherlock, development will occur on empty land.  That is not the question or the issue.  The issue is developers in Tulsa skulk around doing questionable development instead of being out and open about their designs.  The 2000 PUD agreement stated that the restrictions would expire if the Meadowbrook subdivision didn't happen.  That is almost unheard of these days.  If you have a minor amendment on a PUD today, it will stay with the PUD whether the development occurs or not.  I don't know when they ended that BS, but that's what it is.  INCOG needs to go through their tomes and proactively diffuse any other time bombs like this because residents are going to act on the last information they got, which was that a single family sub division was going in there.

Really though I'm not here to argue the morass called TMAPC and INCOG, they already have a proven track record of this ****.  The developer gamed the system by going out and getting an earth moving permit to jack up the elevation AND THEN went and set the elevation for his development.  Based on that, I could go buy a plot of land, permit to move earth and build myself a hill 200 ft high, and then build my house with a 35ft height restriction.

One also has to question the structural safety of apartments sitting on 15-20 of fill dirt sitting on oklahoma red clay.

[azbadpuppy]

The residents between 91st/101st street didn't expect a freeway in their backyard when they purchased their $500,000+ homes back in the 70's and 80's.

It's unfortunate they were misled, but vacant land will be developed, and if developers can get the most money from certain types of development, they will. That's life in the big city. If you want to look out your window and see open space, move to the country.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by azbadpuppy

The residents between 91st/101st street didn't expect a freeway in their backyard when they purchased their $500,000+ homes back in the 70's and 80's.

there were no $500k houses at 91st/101st in the 70s and 80s you tard.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by inteller



there were no $500k houses at 91st/101st in the 70s and 80s you tard.

I'm basking in your warmness you charmer.

[TeeDub]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by azbadpuppy

The residents between 91st/101st street didn't expect a freeway in their backyard when they purchased their $500,000+ homes back in the 70's and 80's.

there were no $500k houses at 91st/101st in the 70s and 80s you tard.

Are you sure those houses back in off 91st and Harvard aren't that much?   (Ah, your point os more that they weren't worth that much in the 70s and 80s.)

[azbadpuppy]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by azbadpuppy

The residents between 91st/101st street didn't expect a freeway in their backyard when they purchased their $500,000+ homes back in the 70's and 80's.

there were no $500k houses at 91st/101st in the 70s and 80s you tard.

Once again, your Arkansas education shows. Why do you always post ignorant statements that prove you know nothing about the topic?

Go drive through the Woodlar, Hunter's Point, Silver Chase, Crown Pointe, etc. neighborhoods. Woodlar was developed in the 70's, Hunter's Pointe and Silver Chase in the late 70's/80's and Crown Pointe was developed in the 80's. All have houses that at the time they were built were going for 300,000-700,000+. Many are worth over a million now.

I should know- I grew up in that area in the 70's/80's. Many in the neighborhood tried to fight the turnpike, but they obviously lost.

What do you base your wealth of knowledge on?

[cannon_fodder]

So the PUD said "single family use unless they don't use it for single family use."

That's meaningless.  I agree that the PUD seems to be stupid and if the homeowner says he was misled so be it.  But if he was relying on the development of a subdivision to protect his purchase then he was taking a calculated risk.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by inteller


Highland Park is ruined now.  Thank goodness I didn't decide to buy a house there, I came really close.

I think you're being a bit of a drama queen. The apartments I live in (with their godawful unshielded lighting and all!) sure didn't stop the folks behind them from building brand new houses, and the heights are probably very similar, given that the apartments are at a higher elevation.

Are you sure that the fill wasn't required for flood control purposes? (that's why the place I live in is on fill)

Edited to add: I drove by a little while ago. I had forgotten the lay of the land in the area. The fill? It's there to level the site..you know, so they can build buildings on it. It's not exactly the developer's fault that the subdivision is in a low spot.