Neighborhood Misled by City, Developer

[LongtimeTulsan]

Neighborhood after neighborhood has suffered the same set of issues. The reality is there is no safeguards for neighborhoods or citizens. Information is not easily accessible and when a citizen goes before the TMAPC they are told they should have known. Is there a guide for homeowners "The everything you need to know that no one will tell you before you buy". Codes and ordinances are twisted, twirled and torqued depending upon who is doing the asking. Look at Brookside, Yale, Harvard, Lewis - Cherry Street for clear examples. Broken Arrow is having their own awakening with the same issues. West Tulsa is being torn asunder. It isn't TMAPC so much as the slick operation under Alberty. Who does he answer to? Who does his boss answer to?

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by nathanm

quote:Originally posted by inteller


Highland Park is ruined now.  Thank goodness I didn't decide to buy a house there, I came really close.

I think you're being a bit of a drama queen. The apartments I live in (with their godawful unshielded lighting and all!) sure didn't stop the folks behind them from building brand new houses, and the heights are probably very similar, given that the apartments are at a higher elevation.

Are you sure that the fill wasn't required for flood control purposes? (that's why the place I live in is on fill)

Edited to add: I drove by a little while ago. I had forgotten the lay of the land in the area. The fill? It's there to level the site..you know, so they can build buildings on it. It's not exactly the developer's fault that the subdivision is in a low spot.

uh, no it wasn't in a low spot.  If you had seen the construction pictures you would have known that the grade from the back of highland park to the apartments was level BEFORE he added 15 ft of fill.  If anything the dude has exacerbated flood problems onto the highland park area because now there IS a low spot and it happens to be the back yards of Highland Park.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by nathanm

quote:Originally posted by inteller


Highland Park is ruined now.  Thank goodness I didn't decide to buy a house there, I came really close.

I think you're being a bit of a drama queen. The apartments I live in (with their godawful unshielded lighting and all!) sure didn't stop the folks behind them from building brand new houses, and the heights are probably very similar, given that the apartments are at a higher elevation.

Are you sure that the fill wasn't required for flood control purposes? (that's why the place I live in is on fill)

Edited to add: I drove by a little while ago. I had forgotten the lay of the land in the area. The fill? It's there to level the site..you know, so they can build buildings on it. It's not exactly the developer's fault that the subdivision is in a low spot.

uh, no it wasn't in a low spot.  If you had seen the construction pictures you would have known that the grade from the back of highland park to the apartments was level BEFORE he added 15 ft of fill.  If anything the dude has exacerbated flood problems onto the highland park area because now there IS a low spot and it happens to be the back yards of Highland Park.

Based on the current lay of the land, (the site where the apartments are is pretty much flat now) I don't see how that's possible.

Now, the land to the east is much flatter. And the back yards adjacent to the new complex are still higher than many of the other houses in that neighborhood.

Unless I'm confused and there's two high-end apartment complexes under construction there.

[inteller]

try to find this week's UED meeting on TGOV.  they show the pictures there.  it is clear to see the existing ground and the fill dirt on top.

[ARGUS]

you guys wanna see an abomination.take a drive down 103st east of Louisville...a developer has built a huge concrete water retention box 18' high. There are existing homes on that street that look at a blank concrete wall 18" high!

[Ttowndad]

Sure sounds like an awful lot of whining going on now that the issue is "South Tulsa" property values.  Many replies to my dislike for the looney bin going near my midtown home sounded similar.  I was labeled though because I was being insensitive.  Sometimes zoning sucks folks.  Guess we all have to live with it.

[Ttowndad]

Posted - 12/05/2008 :  12:10:19      
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quote:
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Originally posted by rwarn17588

Sad sad news when people try to hide their bigotry and NIMBY-ism with such dubious claims as "the city didn't notify us!" (Again, folks, it was already zoned for that type of building -- no notification was required.)

I met one of those neighborhood advocates a few weeks ago, and it was ... scary. And disheartening.

With an advocate like that, the neighborhood doesn't need enemies.

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you mean as opposed to groups who DON'T hide their bigotry and NIMBY-ism?

http://www.buildingtulsabuildinglives.org/buildingtulsa/

give me a ****ing break.


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My "crankiness" is directly proportional to your stupidity.

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Country: | Posts: 3615
Wow!  speaking of NIMBY-look at these posts in reference to another area of Tulsa.  Sound familiar Intell and rwarn?  You can get off your soap boxes now.

[inteller]

your cross posting is completely out of context and not comprehensible.  If you cannot state your position without referring to some really poorly captured quotes then just don't post.

I really don't see the correlation between a loony bin and a developer lying to a homeowner.

[patric]

Councilor John Eagleton is proposing a height cap on all future building projects that would include the dirt brought in as part of the overall height.

As for the development, about the only thing that could be done to rectify the nuisance is for the builder to bring in more dirt to build up the fenceline and do some serious tree planting, along with correcting the drainage so the rest of the neighborhood doesnt flood.  That would certainly make more sense than the developer paying some slap-on-the-wrist fine.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

try to find this week's UED meeting on TGOV.  they show the pictures there.  it is clear to see the existing ground and the fill dirt on top.

My point is that the apartment complex was already on higher ground. They did apparently make it 5 or 6 feet higher still to level the site. Look at the terrain map on Google Maps.

Now, if you're talking about blinding glare from ****ty light fixtures and other off property nuisances, I'm with you 110%. Or if they graded the complex in such a way as to direct all of the runoff into these homeowner's back yards, which I doubt. Just being higher doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

[inteller]

i just watched the UED meeting on this.  these neighbors got screwed over.  Once again the council is going to try and take action to fix the problem going forward, but it doesn't help this neighborhood.

[patric]

http://www.fox23.com/mostpopular/story/New-Concerns-Over-Complex/VSvRrwjGV0e6zBbjUQyBcQ.cspx

One man now thinks the foundation of his home is cracked because of storm water runoff from a nearby apartment complex and another neighbor is worried about soil contamination.

"We now have 113 parking spots set up perpendicular to our fence," said Arnold Newman, who lives right down the road. "Car-door slamming, alarms going off. This is going to be about 35-feet from our back bedroom window."

Concerning to him most of all are the effects of a 10-foot mound of dirt that was collected to elevate the complex.

City Councilman Bill Christiansen says he knows who's to blame for all this.

"I hold the bureaucrats that work for the city responsible for allowing this to happen," said Christiansen.

From storm water runoff to blaring lights and most concerning for Hawamdah- a lack of privacy.

Neighbors living in homes along the property line have already spent thousands of dollars on things like lawyer fees and an engineering report. They're set to meet with the developer of the apartment complex on Saturday, to try and remedy this situation.

[Renaissance]

Off topic: where has Inteller been for two weeks?  I miss his vitriol . . . 

[Conan71]

One good rule of thumb is don't buy a home adjacent to a vacant lot near a busy corner.  No telling what you will get for a neighbor, that is unless you buy in a neat old part of town and some DB like Bumgarner moves in and starts chopping down all your neighbor's houses. 

[FOTD]

Canon Fodder, Inteller, and Conan are EXACTLY correct on their observations here.

Being banned during this discussion, the devil is in the details. Deep into the details.

The city sees revenue. There are those in the city that will go to great lengths to make development happen.

In this case, during the platting process of the apartments, the city no doubt failed to watch out for the adjoing residents. At the same time, just like Conan sez.....