Shoppes at Warren Place

[TheArtist]

Wooooo Hoooo! Another shopping center! lol Oh well, guess its a decent use of that corner. They are calling it "Upscale" and "Mixed Use". The upscale part remains to be seen. But it is no more mixed use than any other shopping center. I wish people wouldn't sully the term "Mixed Use" by using it for everything. If there were residential and or office above the first level retail/restaurant, then it could more reasonably be called mixed use. But anywhoo, here it is...

http://www.higginsproperty.com/PropertyDetails.cfm?pid=283&pt=av








Will definitely be nice for the people who work in the office towers there. And will be nice for people visiting and staying at the hotel to be able to walk out their door and window shop or go to a reastaurant. Kind of like how it would be nice to have a hotel in that spot by Utica Square.

Now they just need to put in some midrise or highrise apartment/condos on that swath of vacant property behind Warren Place to add some more density and make it a little more urban and truly mixed use area.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist


Will definitely be nice for the people who work in the office towers there. And will be nice for people visiting and staying at the hotel to be able to walk out their door and window shop or go to a reastaurant. Kind of like how it would be nice to have a hotel in that spot by Utica Square.

I prefer the parklike atmosphere to more shopping and eating. (I could walk across the street if I wanted that)

I guess mixed use now means "restaurants and retail."

[YoungTulsan]

I actually like that corner how it is, with the nice green space with the mature trees, good landscaping on both sides of the intersection really.

I wonder how they can fill that place up in today's economic climate.

I wonder how that intersection can handle any more traffic.

It does look like upscale is the word, so I'm sure it will be nice.  It'll just mean someone else nearby will become more dilapidated.

[Townsend]

Originally posted by TheArtist





I swear I've seen that exact image used to describe another shopping district in town

[dbacks fan]

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

Originally posted by TheArtist





I swear I've seen that exact image used to describe another shopping district in town

It's the style d'jour.

[cannon_fodder]

Seems a lot like Albuquerque Uptown.  Trendy slightly high end stores.  Walkable (like Utica Square, but modern).  Albuquerque has one level of surface and one level underground parking.    A cross between the Riverwalk and Utica Square I guess.

In Albuquerque it is 5 blocks from one mall and maybe 5 blocks from another.  Yet it remains THE area.  It has spawn a couple hotels and now condos and brownstones are going in.  

Very successful.  If we can mimic that I am happy to see it.  While I enjoy the green space, I can not blame the developers for wanting to reap rewards and the city will benefit from the tax flow.

Now lets hope for jobs information to spend money on those stores.  I think this is a good move, about the time a project this large is done the economy should be humming again.  Exploit the cheap financing.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

I actually like that corner how it is, with the nice green space with the mature trees, good landscaping on both sides of the intersection really.

I wonder how they can fill that place up in today's economic climate.

I wonder how that intersection can handle any more traffic.

It does look like upscale is the word, so I'm sure it will be nice.  It'll just mean someone else nearby will become more dilapidated.

At first I thought it was another example of zero sum gain. Lets face it, the city is not growing much so someone has to decline in business if someone else gains. But then I remembered that the one growth industry in this town is health. St. Francis and St. John's are expanding in spite of everything because of the aging boomers and the suburban geographic location of new breeders. They are one of the few local businesses that pull customers in from outside the MSA. That means this Warren Place shopping center will have a built in traffic generator with the hospital across the street. Just like Utica Square.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

I actually like that corner how it is, with the nice green space with the mature trees, good landscaping on both sides of the intersection really.

I wonder how they can fill that place up in today's economic climate.

I wonder how that intersection can handle any more traffic.

It does look like upscale is the word, so I'm sure it will be nice.  It'll just mean someone else nearby will become more dilapidated.

At first I thought it was another example of zero sum gain. Lets face it, the city is not growing much so someone has to decline in business if someone else gains. But then I remembered that the one growth industry in this town is health. St. Francis and St. John's are expanding in spite of everything because of the aging boomers and the suburban geographic location of new breeders. They are one of the few local businesses that pull customers in from outside the MSA. That means this Warren Place shopping center will have a built in traffic generator with the hospital across the street. Just like Utica Square.

Thats one reason I mentioned having some more urban living in that area. I think just behind Warren Place on that hillside would be a great place to live in an urban loft type midrise. Fantastic view of downtown and lots of nearby amenities. Plus there is still a lot of infill, especially some higher end homes and such going in within just a couple miles of this. The new housing still going in at 71-91st and Yale, 71st-91st and Sheridan, are all close to this. I live at 41st and Yale and will likely go there just like I go to Kings Pointe. Yale is a major traffic corridor period, for business travelers, visitors, hospital, office, hotel, etc. Indeed, it wont just serve people who live in the area.

[OurTulsa]

Decent infill!  

It's nice to see something constructed in context with Warren Place.  While it doesn't necessarily front either arterial street (can't blame them for not wanting to as they're designed exclusively for cars and would be fairly unpleasant to relate to) it will have a decent presence on the intersection and provide a nice scaled visually transitional introduction to the area.  It could be more dimensional with some housing above the shops for those that work in the shops or a midrise condominium building for those who work at Warren Place but it's a nice start.  

The City could really step up and compliment the improvements proposed with this development; help create a sense of place, extend the feel to the public realm.  I'm thinking fairly wide shaded sidewalks with actual barriers between car and people space, attractive street lighting, inviting those at St. Francis to actually walk over to this.  Make pedestrian walks across the intersection more visible...helping connect this with the hospital and the retail in the NW/c and our version of 'Central Park' in the NE/c.  

I wish our priority wasn't to build streets to make sure that during the 30 minute peak time each day we get as many cars as possible through.

The entire area around LaFortune Park could be very pleasant, starting with this corner.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by OurTulsa

Decent infill!  

It's nice to see something constructed in context with Warren Place.  While it doesn't necessarily front either arterial street (can't blame them for not wanting to as they're designed exclusively for cars and would be fairly unpleasant to relate to) it will have a decent presence on the intersection and provide a nice scaled visually transitional introduction to the area.  It could be more dimensional with some housing above the shops for those that work in the shops or a midrise condominium building for those who work at Warren Place but it's a nice start.  

The City could really step up and compliment the improvements proposed with this development; help create a sense of place, extend the feel to the public realm.  I'm thinking fairly wide shaded sidewalks with actual barriers between car and people space, attractive street lighting, inviting those at St. Francis to actually walk over to this.  Make pedestrian walks across the intersection more visible...helping connect this with the hospital and the retail in the NW/c and our version of 'Central Park' in the NE/c.  

I wish our priority wasn't to build streets to make sure that during the 30 minute peak time each day we get as many cars as possible through.

The entire area around LaFortune Park could be very pleasant, starting with this corner.

How about a pedestrian bridge?

[Gaspar]

Not a bad design, just like Kingspoint, Kingslanding, Riverwalk Crossing, and several others. I bet it's the same architecture firm as the above mentioned.  It's gonna be a tight drive, especially if there's a popular anchor.

The architecture may be a direct result of the new AutoCAD keyboards.  

[TheArtist]

I didnt mind that style at first... But now its reeeally getting over done. That fact is going to start hitting people here pretty soon and developers will take notice and start going with a different style. That day wont be a moment too soon imo lol. All "styles" go throught this. Once its just eeeverywhere, people get sick of it and the next new thing pops up. People go gaga over it and the whole process starts up all over again lol. Just like they redid the older strip malls by adding towers, dryvit and stack stone to make them look like the new "in" style. It will be interesting to see them redo these into the next style whatever that may be.

Isnt it interesting too that we can no more figure out what that next new style is going to be, than we could have envisioned this in the 70s and 80s, or the 80s style in the 50s and 60s? I give it about 5 more years of this style, then another 5 for the next predominant style to start becoming apparent. Ooooh look at that, the whole building/center is just one straight line, no towers! How different! Very "upscale". []

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by dbacks fan

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

Originally posted by TheArtist





I swear I've seen that exact image used to describe another shopping district in town

It's the style d'jour.

True. Bland, boring, generic, ugly, totally in keeping with all other shopping developments in Tulsa within the last 20 years.

[OurTulsa]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I didnt mind that style at first... But now its reeeally getting over done. That fact is going to start hitting people here pretty soon and developers will take notice and start going with a different style. That day wont be a moment too soon imo lol. All "styles" go throught this. Once its just eeeverywhere, people get sick of it and the next new thing pops up. People go gaga over it and the whole process starts up all over again lol. Just like they redid the older strip malls by adding towers, dryvit and stack stone to make them look like the new "in" style. It will be interesting to see them redo these into the next style whatever that may be.

Isnt it interesting too that we can no more figure out what that next new style is going to be, than we could have envisioned this in the 70s and 80s, or the 80s style in the 50s and 60s? I give it about 5 more years of this style, then another 5 for the next predominant style to start becoming apparent. Ooooh look at that, the whole building/center is just one straight line, no towers! How different! Very "upscale". []

Funny thing...er maybe frustrating, when you have a fine grain and continuity in your urban form you worry less about the architectural style of the place.  When good form is established only important buildings and public or community facilities (church, rail station, City Hall, performance hall, stadiums), with key positions within that fabric are looked upon for architectural cues of the tone and feel for the place.

Take our *best* examples commercial centers Brookside and Utica Sq.  Many people like the feeling of the places (at least a block or two in Brookside) but if you stepped back and looked I think you'd notice the architecture of both places really - really suck; particularly our beloved Utica Sq.  Any of those buildings, if singled out and put brand new at 71st/ Sheridan would be scoffed at.  

For me, it's the form and rythem of a place that makes it, not the architecture of each individual building.  

So for me, I'm cool with this to start with, relative to what we are used to getting in the way of shopping centers.  

I think the City should step up make some public improvements to the intersection and add some real value to that area.  Not sure about Vegas style pedestrian bridges but something to enhance the human experience.

And why does it have to be labeled 'Shoppes'?  pancakes, why's it so bad to use domestic language?  It's like the pretention of *$$$.  I'm not in Italy, give me a medium!

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

True. Bland, boring, generic, ugly, totally in keeping with all other shopping developments in Tulsa within the last 20 years.

The details may be pretty generic, but the site design is definitely not like other shopping centers.  Other shopping centers are strip malls.  The "tightness" mentioned in this thread is purposeful.  The place is laid out to accommodate, even favor, pedestrians and walkability.  I'll bet the design doesn't even meet our porky parking codes.  That's okay though.  People from Warren Place will be all over there every day and they don't need parking.    

This is a big improvement, it'll work well and be popular precisely because it is different, more compact, and pedestrian friendly.  It's more like Utica Square than it is the stuff from the last 20 years.