What do you think of the new ballpark design?

[Renaissance]

I wonder what the odds of them changing the design are?  Zero?  10%?  

They might tweak it, but I think we're stuck with the airport terminal.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

I wonder what the odds of them changing the design are?  Zero?  10%?  

They might tweak it, but I think we're stuck with the airport terminal.

Keep in mind as well what you are seeing is the design of the back of the suites and the back offices. The ballpark and the majority of the seating is sunken.

[waterboy]

I liked a lot of what Bates wrote except his dislike of the arena design and of course his money line,"If so, it speaks once again to Tulsa's lack of self-confidence. A confident city could have a baseball stadium that looks like a stadium. An embarrassed and self-conscious city has to have an iconic thingamajig".

There is a time and place to be adventurous with design. This is neither.

[Gaspar]

Signs are ready for pickup.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

Signs are ready for pickup.

Maaaaaaaaaaan, I wish it were so.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I liked a lot of what Bates wrote except his dislike of the arena design and of course his money line,"If so, it speaks once again to Tulsa's lack of self-confidence. A confident city could have a baseball stadium that looks like a stadium. An embarrassed and self-conscious city has to have an iconic thingamajig".

There is a time and place to be adventurous with design. This is neither.

Bull Puckey!

I have watched in envy as countless cities in Europe, Asia, South America, and some in the US put up all kinds of wonderful, adventurous, interesting, new buildings. While it seems as though many places here in the US are staid and boring as if they are lifeless and dying. What was it Bing Thom said? The old world is becoming new, the new world is becoming old.

Now, I am not going to say this ballpark is some wonderful, icon of modern design, BUT at least it is not same ol same ol. Hopefully they will tweak it a bit more and it will look nicer in real life versus these renderings.

As for it not looking like a typical baseball stadium... well I showed pics of lots various types and designs for baseball stadiums. Dont really see a "typical" archetype that they all seem to follow. And besides that...

I would love to see a city in which everything were done with some sort of artistic flair, an eye for being different and unique. I think everything in ones life can be a work of art, from a toaster, to a power tool, street light, chair, school, fence, wall,,, you name it. I would sooo respect any city whose people built things that were creative and different, that didnt always look like the same ol same ol. It would say to me, these people are wonderful, they have a sense of life beyond the basic. They arent average, they have a sensibility of  bringing joy, and beauty to every day things. Everything, every single little thing is a chance to express their creativity, something beyond merely existing. In light of such a vision, Who on earth would want or care to make a ballpark that looks like a ballpark lol? Be bold, be different, be wonderful. Create public spaces that are rife with artistic flair. Who gives a crap what others think. We should naturally want to do it for ourselves and our children. However, I honestly believe that if we were to do such things, the world would look at us and admire us and think "Now there is a people who know what life is about and how to live it fully."

I dont think this ballpark has gone far enough. I think they are being too conservative. Pragmatically speaking, I dont think they are going to make major changes at this point. So trying to get them to trash it for something completely different isnt, imo, going to get any constructive results. The best we can likely hope for is for them to make some tweaks here and there. Like with the upper windows. Seems like they went "safe" at first. Then loosened up a tiny bit and made some positive changes. Give em some credit for making that change, and encourage them to make some more in that direction.  

If in the end its still not all that exciting or different... I look at it like I do a blank canvas or white wall. I make a living at turning white walls into new worlds. I spend most of my life taking blah and turning it into WOW! I am not talking "lipstick on a pig" here, that may be all you can imagine. I am talking taking a pig and some lipstick and making her look like Marilyn Monroe lol. If you dont have the vision, talent or guts, Get the heck out of my way and let me at it lol. It aint over till its over. When this building is done, ITS NOT! Think like an artist! Be Creative! Nothing is done till WE are done.  

[waterboy]

Wow, are you like...the Target designer du jour?

This is Tulsa. The city of people you described occasionally visit their cousins or grand parents here. When we're all artists from New York we'll fit this design.

BTW, what do the stadiums in that design leading city of New York look like? Yankee stadium looks like a baseball stadium. Perhaps Bates is right. We lack the confidence to just build a dang stadium and stop trying to impress outsiders with our style and creativity.


New tag line for Tulsa. "Tulsa....Je'ne c'est quoix!" Sorry for the spelling.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Wow, are you like...the Target designer du jour?

This is Tulsa. The city of people you described occasionally visit their cousins or grand parents here. When we're all artists from New York we'll fit this design.

BTW, what do the stadiums in that design leading city of New York look like? Yankee stadium looks like a baseball stadium. Perhaps Bates is right. We lack the confidence to just build a dang stadium and stop trying to impress outsiders with our style and creativity.


New tag line for Tulsa. "Tulsa....Je'ne c'est quoix!" Sorry for the spelling.

NYC is getting old and living in the past too imo, and has lost its way. Its living on past glory. May still be able to claim to be "the greatest city on earth". But my sense is that its losing its edge, becoming conservative and "corporate". Look at all those buildings replacing the Twin Towers...booooring, yawn. Look at London for some fun and funky architecture with some guts. Even Denver here in the US is having some fun with some neat architecture. Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, those are some cities where they appreciate art and bold architecture infiltrating their lives. They seem to have developed a normal habit for it. Its simply the way you live. From the poor person to the wealthy. The average working bloke appreciates it, expects it, as much as anyone else. Its not a class thing or a special thing as we sometimes tend to see it. Its everyone. I just dont think we are used to it. A little nurturing and surely people here can get it just as much as anyone anywhere can. And I think thats something worth nurturing. Surely cant hurt lol.  

This has got me thinking, our city really is quite devoid of some... "choice" stand out, pieces of art. The critters along the river, not exactly inspiring, interesting or challenging lol. Glad we got em and all, but we need a few things with some oompf lol. (Oompf, thats one of them fancy, technical terms us artists use [] )

Perhaps right in front of this ballpark would be just the place for something? "segue back on topic there". Ooooh, but could people here handle a piece of art in front of their ballpark? Ooooh, I dont know lol. [] And NO! not some guy in bronze swinging a bat! lol

[MichaelBates]

A friend e-mailed to take me to task for suggesting the use of a classic style for the ballpark, for wanting the ballpark to look like it had been there for a hundred years. He said that it's dishonest to recreate historic styles.

What matters to me more than anything about this ballpark is that it should be a good urban building. What it looks like from the outside to the pedestrian and the driver matters more to the health of downtown than what it's like on the inside for the fan. We are using it (or should be using it) to fill a gap in our downtown. We are trying to reweave a urban fabric tattered by 50 years of bad decisions, both public and private.

Build it in a modern style if you must, but make it "legible" -- easy to tell what it is and how you get in -- and build it to the street and make the building front permeable -- no blank walls, no mirrored surfaces.

It ought to be possible to build a good urban building with modern materials, but modern architects seem to have a problem with it. (Case in point, the BOK Center.)

That's one reason to insist on a classic style. If you find an architect who isn't offended to his artistic core by your desire to borrow from Plains Commercial or Richardsonian Romanesque or Art Deco, he might be self-effacing enough to be willing to make the ballpark look like a ballpark instead of turning it into his personal artistic statement.

[Gaspar]

Well put Michael.

[Oil Capital]

Agree with Michael.  Those are exactly the points in Michael's linked article that I agreed with.   Generally speaking, I like the design, but it appears to be lack legibility and permeability, both of which are hugely important for this project.

[Oil Capital]

Originally posted by sgrizzle



Keep in mind as well what you are seeing is the design of the back of the suites and the back offices. The ballpark and the majority of the seating is sunken.
[/quote

As mentioned above, the playing field is to be a mere 13 feet below street level.  The renderings show what appears to be three stories of building, above street level.  Not sure a majority of the seats will fit into a space that is 10 feet tall (because the seats won't start at field level...)

In any event, what does it matter what is behind the structure?  The design of the structure is what it is, good or bad, no matter if there are bleachers, concession stands, suites, or back offices inside.

[cannon_fodder]

+1 Bates.  I'm whole heatedly on board with what you have written on this issue.  


Artist:

NYC is a much better city today than it was 10 or 20 years ago.  Crime is (way, way) down.  Construction is up.  There are more sky scrappers than ever.  Tourism is back.  Their arts are as impressive as ever, their new planetarium (whatever they call it) is certainly an impressive cultural asset.  Urban living is in vogue and young people have returned to Manhattan.  

If you are worried that they are too "corporate" then you miss the entire point of New York City.  It was founded AS a corporation by the Dutch.  The English took it over and operated it as a for-profit venture.  5th Avenue, Wall Street, Times Square, the Empire State Building, Rockefeller Center, the World Trade Center...  this is a city built on commerce, for commerce, and by commerce.  Too say NYC is too corporate is to say San Francisco would be pretty without all that water, the hills, and that damn orange bridge.

And finally, the World Trade Center was a stark and modern as it could be when first built.  It was criticized as being bland and out of touch.  The city HATED IT for years during and after the construction.   The design isn't my favorite either, but NYC has a better architectural track record than I do and time will tell.  

Maybe I'm just kind of slack jawed because we are sitting in the "Oil Capital of the World" accusing NYC of living in the past.  Nothing personal, just touched a nerve for some reason.

[SXSW]

Having lived in Denver I am most familiar with Coors Field.  It is a great example of an urban ballpark and what I immediately envisioned for Brady, albeit at a smaller scale.  I like how the brick mimics the warehouses of LoDo and the form/mass of the outside matches the 3-4 story buildings around it.  I don't mind if Tulsa's ballpark is stone/glass but I do want a good urban design that fits in Brady.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by SXSW

Having lived in Denver I am most familiar with Coors Field.  It is a great example of an urban ballpark and what I immediately envisioned for Brady, albeit at a smaller scale.  I like how the brick mimics the warehouses of LoDo and the form/mass of the outside matches the 3-4 story buildings around it.  I don't mind if Tulsa's ballpark is stone/glass but I do want a good urban design that fits in Brady.

oh yeah Coors field is the ultimate urban ballpark.  You can hop a free bus and crawl all of the bars after the game.  Denver has it figured out when it comes to hip urban planning.  I just don't understand why so many buinesses along the 16th St mall are going under (and this was prior to the recession).  I think rent and taxes must be really high.