Bush's new health regulations

[Nik]

This sounds ridiculous to me. Bush is going to pass a law saying that health workers can deny providing care for conditions they disagree with morally.

So, if your local pharmacist at WalMart doesn't agree with birth control, that person can refuse to sell you your legal prescription. This is just one scenario on this very vague law that could have sweeping effects. Obama is already trying to figure out how and when to reverse it.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/politics/bal-te.abortion19dec19,0,1100701.story

[Red Arrow]

I saw something like this in the news at least a year ago.  I believe a pharmacist refused to sell birth control pills somewhere in Kansas.

[Ed W]

As I understand it, the rule is so broadly written that if the cashier opposes contraception, she can refuse the sale.  The Bush administration pushed this one through merely to appease the right-wing fundamentalists and cause trouble for the in-coming Obama administration.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Nik

This sounds ridiculous to me. Bush is going to pass a law saying that health workers can deny providing care for conditions they disagree with morally.

So, if your local pharmacist at WalMart doesn't agree with birth control, that person can refuse to sell you your legal prescription. This is just one scenario on this very vague law that could have sweeping effects. Obama is already trying to figure out how and when to reverse it.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/politics/bal-te.abortion19dec19,0,1100701.story

So, a pharmacist or physician that does not want to sell or prescribe RU-486 or any other drug they find morally objectionable should be forced to sell or prescribe it then?

[Red Arrow]

It sounds to vague to me. I wonder how long it will be until stores have to post hours when specific medicines are/are not available due to employee schedules.

This week only...
No birth control M T W 10:30 to 4:30
No Blood pressure medicine Tuesday only 8:00 to 6:00
No diet pills W T F 12:00 to 6:00

A bit of an exaggeration perhaps but there are some people out there with moral objections to things most of the population doesn't care about.

What's next?  Home and Garden store employees could refuse to sell rat poison, insecticide, petroleum based fertilizer?

Convenience store employees could refuse to sell beer?

Independent businesses and persons should be able to choose what they sell.  As an employee of that business, if you disagree with the legally available products, maybe you should seek employment elsewhere.  As an employer, you should be able to refuse employment to someone who will not sell your products.

[Nik]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by Nik

This sounds ridiculous to me. Bush is going to pass a law saying that health workers can deny providing care for conditions they disagree with morally.

So, if your local pharmacist at WalMart doesn't agree with birth control, that person can refuse to sell you your legal prescription. This is just one scenario on this very vague law that could have sweeping effects. Obama is already trying to figure out how and when to reverse it.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/politics/bal-te.abortion19dec19,0,1100701.story

So, a pharmacist or physician that does not want to sell or prescribe RU-486 or any other drug they find morally objectionable should be forced to sell or prescribe it then?

Yes. I don't have a problem with a physician refusing to prescribe medicine, as long as his stances are known in advance. But for any person working at a pharmacy (not just an actual pharmacist, but an hourly employee working the counter) to deny a legally prescribed medication is not right.

[cannon_fodder]

What if I feel AIDS is a curse from God unto the homosexuals of America?

Can I refuse to hand out ADT?

Or cancer drugs?

What if I think STDs are righteous?

This law is ripe for abuse.  IMHO it allows YOUR religious belief's to control my life.  If a certain pharmacy wants to set up and operate under such rules that would be fine with me, but to ad hoc allow certain places at random times to deny me whatever medicine they object to seems unworkable.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

What if I feel AIDS is a curse from God unto the homosexuals of America?

Can I refuse to hand out ADT?

Or cancer drugs?

What if I think STDs are righteous?

This law is ripe for abuse.  IMHO it allows YOUR religious belief's to control my life.  If a certain pharmacy wants to set up and operate under such rules that would be fine with me, but to ad hoc allow certain places at random times to deny me whatever medicine they object to seems unworkable.

Overreact much CF? Go to another provider if you do not like the fact that a physician/pharmacist might have the audacity to have both moral beliefs and a job. God forbid you and others opposed to this regulation might be a little inconvenienced in exchange for granting health care providers the same rights as you and others have to both work and keep moral beliefs.

[waterboy]

Work and keep moral convictions? Not in any corporate setting I've ever been employed by. I find your argument to be stretched way, way out. Nothing will be manufactured, packaged or sold in America should we all start insisting that our moral convictions be met. The honus is on the worker to move on, or the customer to purchase elsewhere, should they disagree with a business strongly enough. Forcing others to abide by personal convictions that are not universally held is just wrong.

[Gaspar]

Strange how when you read the actual rule it differs from what is being reported in the news.  

The rule prohibits recipients of federal money from discriminating against doctors, nurses and health care aides who refuse to take part in procedures because of their convictions, and it bars hospitals, clinics, doctors' office and pharmacies from forcing their employees to assist in programs and activities financed by the of Department of Health and Human Services.

Looks like it says that if your boss is financed by federal money and he wants you to perform an abortion, you have the right to say no, and request that another physician perform the procedure without having your job threatened.

Doesn't really pertain to private companies like your Walgreens or CVS.

I don't agree with it.  I would say that if you sign on to a job and that job requests that you do things that are against your moral convictions, it is your responsibility to discontinue your employment with that organization. . . But I'm one of those weird "personal responsibility" kind of folks.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

It sounds to vague to me. I wonder how long it will be until stores have to post hours when specific medicines are/are not available due to employee schedules.

This week only...
No birth control M T W 10:30 to 4:30
No Blood pressure medicine Tuesday only 8:00 to 6:00
No diet pills W T F 12:00 to 6:00

A bit of an exaggeration perhaps but there are some people out there with moral objections to things most of the population doesn't care about.

What's next?  Home and Garden store employees could refuse to sell rat poison, insecticide, petroleum based fertilizer?

Convenience store employees could refuse to sell beer?

Independent businesses and persons should be able to choose what they sell.  As an employee of that business, if you disagree with the legally available products, maybe you should seek employment elsewhere.  As an employer, you should be able to refuse employment to someone who will not sell your products.

No medical care at all at a doctors office because the Nurse is a Christian Scientist? No pork at one butcher because he's Muslim, no leather shoes at Macy's, the department manager is Vegan? No Zanax, the pharmacist is into Scientology? No adult movies at the local sex shop, the counter girl is a staunch feminist?

Honestly, there are some jobs that if you take the position, you need to understand what it entails.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar



I don't agree with it.  I would say that if you sign on to a job and that job requests that you do things that are against your moral convictions, it is your responsibility to discontinue your employment with that organization. . . But I'm one of those weird "personal responsibility" kind of folks.

That I can agree with. However, if it is my medical practice or my pharmacy, it should be my right to say "no", I do not sell/prescribe RU-486 or provide any abortion services. If I lose business because of that decision, it is my fault.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar



I don't agree with it.  I would say that if you sign on to a job and that job requests that you do things that are against your moral convictions, it is your responsibility to discontinue your employment with that organization. . . But I'm one of those weird "personal responsibility" kind of folks.

That I can agree with. However, if it is my medical practice or my pharmacy, it should be my right to say "no", I do not sell/prescribe RU-486 or provide any abortion services. If I lose business because of that decision, it is my fault.

Unless we're in rural Oklahoma, and you're the only practitioner in town. At that point, do I have to drive to the next town, or county to buy RU-486?

Edit:  Or condoms?

[cannon_fodder]

Guido,

You have to keep reading...

quote:If a certain pharmacy wants to set up and operate under such rules that would be fine with me, but to ad hoc allow certain places at random times to deny me whatever medicine they object to seems unworkable.

I specifically said if your pharmacy wants to NOT sell a particular drug, so be it.  If an attorney doesn't want to do divorces, then don't.  If a factory doesn't want to manufacture sexual devices, they won't.

My gripe was in the ad hoc nature of the law as reported.  I did not look up the text of the law, if allowed for "moral" judgments then an individual would be free to hinder their employer as they saw fit.  Furthermore, if on a moral basis I thought all people having sex before marriage should die of STDs then I could withhold drugs from that particular group (no wedding ring?  Enjoy your syphilis!) - or other ridiculous "moral" judgments.  

You can keep whatever moral beliefs you want, until they hinder your job performance.  At which point an employer should be free to fire you.  Personally, my religion affords me a 3 day weekend and alcohol at 5pm... but I can't find an employer willing to keep with my moral beliefs.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by we vs us

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar



I don't agree with it.  I would say that if you sign on to a job and that job requests that you do things that are against your moral convictions, it is your responsibility to discontinue your employment with that organization. . . But I'm one of those weird "personal responsibility" kind of folks.

That I can agree with. However, if it is my medical practice or my pharmacy, it should be my right to say "no", I do not sell/prescribe RU-486 or provide any abortion services. If I lose business because of that decision, it is my fault.

Unless we're in rural Oklahoma, and you're the only practitioner in town. At that point, do I have to drive to the next town, or county to buy RU-486?

Edit:  Or condoms?

I guess so or do not abort your baby. Otherwise, as I stated earlier, do you ignore that practioner's rights and force him/her to do something they morally oppose?