Tulsa World lays off 28 employees

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by DowntownNow

Inteller...

It's unfortunate that such a knowledgable individual such as yourself, who has expressed many a great opinion on here in the past, lowered yourself to such a standard as to attack a TW writer personally and using such a blatant and vulgar term in the process.  You may have been trying to be clever in your way of expressing your dislike of PJ Lassek, using your little capitalized letters and such, but your post only demonstrates how simple minded and distasteful some can be on here when there is no reason or justification for it.  I would think this is a forum in which educated, well intentioned individuals can express their ideas, concerns and opinions in order to engage in dialogue about news and events happening around and effecting us.

I have had the opportunity to meet PJ Lassek several times over the last couple of years and while I do not agree with everything PJ Lassek writes, I do understand that most times she is subject to the review of her editors and must leave certain information out of articles.  She is a woman simply performing her job, if you have a personal beef with her, you should keep it just that, personal.  

The loss of any jobs in Tulsa hurts us all and the start of this post was to inform its readership of such.  We should be asking ourselves what can be done to help those whose jobs were terminated today and offering suggestions to them on here instead of using it to berate, name call and attack an individual that could have just as easily been victim to this job loss as well.

I would certianly hope others within this forum would not take a liking to your posting either...it speaks ill of the type of people Tulsa has come to be known by - people that are caring and sincere, particularly when their neighbors are in need.  We lead best by example and your's sir is not the example I want to be reading in this fine forum and sharing with those I want to encourage to move here.

Your wasting your time with this guy. Inteller's the only guy more obtuse than me in this forum. []

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Inteller is on target with his criticism of the World's journalistic standards or lack of them.  

I responded back because I felt he was wrong to anonymously attack her. She is my friend and does a damn good job and doesn't deserve his treatment. I defend my friends.

why should anyone be surprised that one mayor's apologist would defend another?

But I appreciate your consistency.

[TheArtist]

I am glad we have a local paper that does local news to the extent it does. Its nice to have stuff "in print" in a place where the majority of people can see it and argue about it. Are they biased, duh, eeeeeeeeeveryone knows it is so everyone takes that into consideration automatically. However, they do still put out a lot of information that would otherwise not get out to a lot of people. Even the biased or partial stuff at least gives you the heads up to what part of the story is, and what to be paying attention to lol. If anything I see that as a woooonderful opportunity for someone to be the contrarian and fill the gap. Tulsa People, Urban Tulsa, The Eagle, local Bloggers, Tulsa Now, etc. It doesn't have to be another large paper. Most of the TW doesn't do one, really, in-depth story, its lots of little stories with only a little info. One good story a month can trump a bunch of little stories with little info.  

But its often those little stories and what the TW says that can spur others to dig deeper and challenge things, and at least put the story into the public consciousness. I appreciate it when Bates "trying not to puke as I say this...[]" does an in depth story on a topic. You can tell when he does a lot of digging, lot of work, puts a lot of effort into a story. Though he often sees things through his own bias, Who doesn't?, at least he puts in a good amount of thought, info, and depth, into many of his stories. I don't think I have really ever seen the TW do stories where they have had someone sit down, focus on a topic, and really dig deep for stuff. They pretty much just do enough to get the general gist of it, a few factoids that anyone could put out there without much searching. I know you have to do that if your trying to fill space in a paper every day and week. But I still wish they would, on occasion, do some real digging and prying and present as in depth a story as they could on a topic and not just do brief "general info" stories. I would rather have less stories and suffer a little silence on a topic if I knew they would then come out with an in depth series of stories later.

I have seen many a time when there is so little information in a story, or such poor wording, that people are actually left more confused, and with more questions than before they read the story lol. And then it takes more stories to try and get the misunderstandings corrected. And sometimes you can never "undo" those first confused impressions.

It would be great for them to, say, every other month, pick a pertinent topic, a special assignment, and do some really in depth analysis of something going on locally. Even have the paper look different or be special editions so people would take notice and look forward to getting these. Perhaps have 3 reporters or teams, one doing the pros, the other the cons, the other some possible compromise or alternative views. I think it would give the paper a lot more weight and gravitas. Even if 95% of the time it was the usual, get at least some bit of info out there, type of thing. Those in depth, both sides, type stories would be much appreciated. And if done well, and on a regular, bi-monthly basis, would be looked forward too. I bet people, "students as part of a classroom project, good to get the young people interested in the paper and local issues" would be far more likely to actually buy the paper to be able to sit down and read that great, in-depth analysis and different perspectives.

And yes, the TW is SO much better than the Daily Oklahoman. Ghastly paper there.

[David Arnett]

The OKC newspaper is "The Oklahoman."  They left the "Daily" in the dust long ago.  Also, with the change of family members at the helm, the editorial content is less right-of-center than it has been in the past.  They have also improved the graphic presentation.  The news has always been good and is getting better. I am a regular reader for OK Politics, OU Sports, and news outside the metro areas.

They don't cover Tulsa very well.  Not as bad as the Tulsa World coverage of state government or OKC news, but not worthy of the "state newspaper" title they use. They also bait Tulsans thus adding to the rivalry, but that is a longer older story.

Top Tulsa World News Management said to me, "Our editorial pages exist to convince people that what we believe is right is right.  There is no obligation for us to present balanced or diverse editorial presentations."  That is a different philosophy than the departed afternoon daily Tulsa Tribune which believed in getting the best opinions from all sides and letting the people/readers figure out which was right.  If the Tulsa World would hire people, as many other news organizations have done, to disagree within their own pages, there would be far less angry dispute in this city.  Totalitarianism in anything ultimately leads to revolution – government, business and media.

I have frequently been a public critic of the Tulsa World not because they are all that bad, but because they could be so very much better.  I have also had my disagreements with PJ, but I believe her to be an honest reporter working for what she believes is the best story.  I don't really like her and we dang sure disagree often, but I respect her work.

Another difference between news organizations, the Tulsa Tribune moved reporters to different beats every few years.  At the Tulsa World, you can die in the same place you were hired.  In covering government, moving reporters with each change of administrations has great advantages.

My best wishes to former reporters now looking for work.  I will publish your good work if you desire to stay visible as a journalist in this market.  I will include a bio bit and a direct e-mail for you.  However, there is little local love for hard news reporting and much abuse from anonymous critics.  Regardless, I have the legal talent and will back any reporter that may wish to write truth to power.  To avoid charges of self-promotion, I will not list my URL here ... you know where to find me.

[inteller]

so what time do they close down at 319 E 3rd St?

[Wilbur]

Apparently the Tulsa World needed some money for a country club membership.

http://www.batesline.com/archives/2009/01/whirled-update.html

Can you say 'car executive.'

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by David Arnett

The OKC newspaper is "The Oklahoman."  They left the "Daily" in the dust long ago.  Also, with the change of family members at the helm, the editorial content is less right-of-center than it has been in the past.  They have also improved the graphic presentation.  The news has always been good and is getting better. I am a regular reader for OK Politics, OU Sports, and news outside the metro areas.

They don't cover Tulsa very well.  Not as bad as the Tulsa World coverage of state government or OKC news, but not worthy of the "state newspaper" title they use. They also bait Tulsans thus adding to the rivalry, but that is a longer older story.

Top Tulsa World News Management said to me, "Our editorial pages exist to convince people that what we believe is right is right.  There is no obligation for us to present balanced or diverse editorial presentations."  That is a different philosophy than the departed afternoon daily Tulsa Tribune which believed in getting the best opinions from all sides and letting the people/readers figure out which was right.  If the Tulsa World would hire people, as many other news organizations have done, to disagree within their own pages, there would be far less angry dispute in this city.  Totalitarianism in anything ultimately leads to revolution – government, business and media.

I have frequently been a public critic of the Tulsa World not because they are all that bad, but because they could be so very much better.  I have also had my disagreements with PJ, but I believe her to be an honest reporter working for what she believes is the best story.  I don't really like her and we dang sure disagree often, but I respect her work.

Another difference between news organizations, the Tulsa Tribune moved reporters to different beats every few years.  At the Tulsa World, you can die in the same place you were hired.  In covering government, moving reporters with each change of administrations has great advantages.
My best wishes to former reporters now looking for work.  I will publish your good work if you desire to stay visible as a journalist in this market.  I will include a bio bit and a direct e-mail for you.  However, there is little local love for hard news reporting and much abuse from anonymous critics.  Regardless, I have the legal talent and will back any reporter that may wish to write truth to power.  To avoid charges of self-promotion, I will not list my URL here ... you know where to find me.

Wow, really? You have not heard from anyone yet? Huh.  That is weird.  I wonder why not? Have you put anything on your blog about the World's layoff? Ha ha! Ribbit! Ribbit!

[Kashmir]

Was it sgrizzle that had a picture of his kid in the paper last year?  That proves it.  Clearly Biased.  Most definitely pushing the grizz agenda.  And the pumpkin agenda as well (if I remember correctly)

Just kidding...I've got 2 sick kids and have been stuck in the house 3  days.  Help Meeeeeeee!!!!!

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by Kashmir


Just kidding...I've got 2 sick kids and have been stuck in the house 3  days.  Help Meeeeeeee!!!!!

My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.  And you had better listen to me, I was pre-law.

[Kashmir]

What's soooo bad is that Mr. K has had to work late every night (or has he...)  So legally, is that grounds for divorce? LOL

At least it is the cold sickness and not "the other kind" profiled on KJRH Monday eve, because hearing about the stomack flu was about the worst thing I've seen on the news lately.  [xx(] THAT would drive me to drink heavily.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by Kashmir
THAT would drive me to drink heavily.

Take a designated driver to come back. []

[Nik]

So apparently Mr. Bates is being sued for his recent article in the Urban Tulsa.

http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A25966

http://www.batesline.com/archives/2009/01/sued-by-the-whirled.html


EDIT: This is already being discussed in the Political forum: http://www.tulsanow.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12465

[inteller]

yeah, because you know, legal matters are political...[]

[dbacks fan]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

quote:Originally posted by Kashmir


Just kidding...I've got 2 sick kids and have been stuck in the house 3  days.  Help Meeeeeeee!!!!!

My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.  And you had better listen to me, I was pre-law.

I thought you were pre-med?

[cannon_fodder]

Glad someone caught the reference Dbacks.  [}:)]