Stadium Name

[cannon_fodder]

I was waiting for the name seller crowd to come out of the woodwork.

And do you know WHY we sell the names for structures now?  Because the alternative would be to raise taxes to pay for the ballpark.  Frankly, I'm happy the city got the $5,000,000 for slapping a corporate name on it.  I can spend my families $50 share of what we would of had to pay on a night out utilizing that ballpark.

It is also worth noting that stadiums and the like were often named after large donors to help build said stadium.  Sutton Stadium, Skelly Stadium (Madison Square Gardens, Rockefeller Center, Wrigley Field, Shea Stadium...).  If an individual gave $5mil I'm sure we could call it Michael Patton stadium or S. Grizzle Stadium.

The names have always been for sale, the high bidders might more often be corporate than they used to be.  But nothing has really changed since "back in the day."

[Hometown]

There will be a meeting of the "name seller crowd" at my place tonight at 7:30 p.m.  We probably won't get much accomplished but at least we'll have the satisfaction of knowing that we irritated Cannon Fodder.

Please review the following update on naming rights from an online encyclopedia:

"The public reaction to this practice is mixed. Naming rights sold to new venues have largely been accepted, especially if the buyer has strong local connections to the area, such as the case of Rich Stadium in the Buffalo suburb of Orchard Park, Heinz Field in Pittsburgh, and Coors Field in Denver. Selling the naming rights to an already-existing venue has been notably less successful, as in the attempt to rename Candlestick Park in San Francisco to 3Com Park. The general public (and some media outlets) continued to call the facility what it had been known as for over three decades – Candlestick Park. After the agreement with 3Com expired, the rights were resold to Monster Cable, and the stadium was renamed Monster Park. San Francisco voters had the final say; they passed an initiative in the November 2004 elections that stipulates that the facility's name will revert to Candlestick Park once the current naming rights contract expires in 2008. The initiative is largely ceremonial: it would not apply to a new stadium, which the 49ers are currently planning to build."

Now, imagine that.  Trendsetting San Franciscans have said enough already.  No more naming rights.

Maybe this will gain traction.  Maybe these whorish corporate names will disappear.  Maybe Cannon will have to pay another $5 in taxes.  Oh, the possibilities ...

[Gaspar]

It will always be TBAG to me.

[cannon_fodder]

Shadows...

First of all, that article even relates the fact that NEW venues are commonly accepted.  Particularily when the company has strong local roots (say... OneOK, BOK, or QuickTrip) Renaming OLD venues is indeed more sensitive (see Expo).  This is a NEW venue... no different that the list of famous venues I put up above.

Candlestick is a great example of how NOT to do things.  Rebrand it every 5 years and with a poor marketing scheme to boot (quick, is it Monster.com, Monster Drink, Monster Cable, or just a nickname?).   I would have no problem if voters wanted to increase their taxes and have it called TBAG (or whatever).

For me, I'm proud of our local companies and don't mind them showing off by sponsoring grand building projects.  Woodward park.  Zink lake.  Skelly Field. Naming it after the person/company that puts money towards it is a long standing local and national tradition.  I'll keep my $50 and call it OneOK Field.

My only regret is that it is a 5 year deal.  At $1,000,000 a year discounted for 100 years the take for a life-spawn contract would be around $20mil.   Minneapolis just got $100,000,000 for their new Target Stadium.  Yankee Stadium could fetch as much as $250,000,000 for naming rights.

Not at least considering such offers is a disservice to tax payers.

San Fransisco area enjoys:
Monster Stadium at Candlestick Park
Oracle Arena
HP Pavilion
Herbst Theatre
Fillmore Auditorium
Louise M. Davies Symphony Hall
Paramount Theatre
Orpheum Theatre
AT&T Park
Giants & 49ers Stadium. . .

Basically, plenty of places named after the primary party who supported the construction.  It has always been that way, and probably always will be.  I agree that auctioning it off every 5 years is tacky, but if it is a choice between more taxes or naming a stadium... have at it with the caveat the name goes to a local company with roots willing to pay a fair price.

My 2 cents anyway.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by SXSW

BOK and ONEOK.  People not from here will sure think we have some strange-named facilities.  A friend from Denver came to Tulsa and upon seeing the BOK Center asked what BOK (he pronounced it Bach) stood for.  He he had no idea it was a bank.  I look forward to how they pronounce ONEOK...

If your friend banks at Colorado State Bank, tell him he is a member of the BOK family, since BOK owns Colorado State Bank (and several other banks).

http://www.csbt.com/

Logo look familiar?

[Wilbur]

How 'bout -

'There Goes Wilbur's Raise Field'

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder
If an individual gave $5mil I'm sure we could call it Michael Patton stadium ...

I would probably name it after my kids...

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder


My only regret is that it is a 5 year deal.  At $1,000,000 a year discounted for 100 years the take for a life-spawn contract would be around $20mil.   Minneapolis just got $100,000,000 for their new Target Stadium.  Yankee Stadium could fetch as much as $250,000,000 for naming rights.

Not at least considering such offers is a disservice to tax payers.

5-year deal?   the World tells us the $5 million was for 20 years.

[waterboy]

I'm in HT's club. You paint yourself into a corner Cannon, then blame the paint. Because it isn't necessary for taxpayers to even be involved when the venue is a private entity.

Those old stadiums you named were not at taxpayer expense, hence named after their donors...Skelly, Sutton etc. or their geographic location...Three Rivers Stadium, Candlestick Park. Once you decide that private profit making sports facilities require taxpayer donations to survive, THEN you have to sell the naming rights to the largest bidder which is usually corporate.(really the largest donor is the taxpayer but that's a different argument).

It will always be Candlestick park to the locals, just like it will always be Skelly Stadium to Tulsa locals, though I thought it was quite clever to retain the Skelly Field name and add a different name for the Stadium. That works fine for all parties. OU's stadium, publicly financed, is still Memorial Stadium named I believe after the War Veterans. They make their money from selling space on their big screen, banners, promotions etc.

It's T-BAG for me!

[RecycleMichael]

Isn't the Brady Theater named after Greg and Marcia Brady?

[dbacks fan]

Why is it always Marcia, Marcia, Marcia?

[cannon_fodder]

Waterboy,

If you want to revisit the entire proposal we can go back to the threads from 6 months ago.  But the proposal was a go, as was the BOk center... so the decision is to sell naming rights or not.  It will be built, the question is do we build it with $5mil added from OneOK or from tax payers.

I chose corporate money over tax payer money.

If we could renovate the TPAC and someone wanted to pay us $5mil to call it the WILLIAM THEATER I'd be fine with that to.  Better assets for the city of Tulsa at the expense of putting a local name on the place.  Not a problem.

Someone want to give me $60mil to call City Hall something else?  Wait, we gave that right away in the master lease for free.

[Hometown]

Shadows drew attention to the fact that selling naming rights is the convention these days.  Of course, he is right.  And I would not expect Tulsa to do much of anything that isn't conventional.  That's the difference between being a follower and being a leader.

In fact I wouldn't expect Tulsa do much of anything different and hip on purpose.  

Say for example restore her civic center to its classic Mid-Century Modern condition.  That's the kind of thing that Santa Barbara or say, Chicago, would do.  

I would expect Tulsa to tear down the original classic and erect engineer designed metal knock offs and call it an entertainment district, not maintain it, and tear it down in 30 years.

But I think Cannon has hit on a basic condition of life here.  Cheap.  Or as a friend reminded me, "less expensive."

So much of where Tulsa stands now has to do with what is cheap.  Just about everyone hereabouts has embraced "cheap" as an unquestioned virtue.

Road contractors working without proper safety equipment is okay with us because it is cheap.  So what if a life is lost here and there.  Ultimately we enjoy a net savings, even after an occasional settlment.

Tulsa is a lovely place to raise children.  But Tulsa isn't hip, at least not intentionally.  From time to time we accidentally touch on hip but it's mostly the subtle variety that only young people or poets would notice.

Personally I believe you get what you pay for.

But don't get me wrong.  I'm delighted the stadium will go up and I wish us the best luck with downtown baseball.

[Renaissance]

Uh, Candlestick Park was a municipal venture by San Francisco.  Not a private venture.  (It was built on Candlestick Point.)

Wrigley Field was a private venture by the Wrigley family (yes, of the gum) who owned the field.

I guess I just don't understand this "should" stuff.  If you want the stadium to be named something, pay for it.  That's all.  Greenwood is getting plenty out of this deal--a ballpark name would be nice, but the ballpark won't exist without funding, and so better to have one with a corporate name than not have one at all and thus forgo the Greenwood memorial, park and community center.

[JCnOwasso]

This kills me.

Colorado is a hitters park.  High altitude etc...
Tulsa will be one of the hardest parks to hit in...  faces south, summer wind

Well atleast if they have a high BA, the rockies will know that they are pure hitters and not inflated by a bad stadium design.