Tulsa World sues Bates

[RecycleMichael]

I want to sue somebody...

I think inteller's avatar leads to global warming and causes me to be sunburned.

See you in court.

[Kiah]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

As for the World's need, I doubt Bates or UTW have much collateral that the World is interested in.  I think this is more about clearing their name from claims that they cook their books, though I suspect they'll take what they can to cover the attorney fees.

I don't think that's the point.  When you've fallen on hard times (laying off 28 employees), getting rid of a competitor for advertising, by any means necessary, would probably be a temptation.

[Hometown]

Urban Tulsa and Bates' stock is way up in my estimation.  It seems that the World is having trouble adjusting to a more sophisticated Tulsa and an informed and feisty citizenry.  Maybe the bad economy and widespread industry ills will put the Tulsa World out of business.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Kiah

quote:Originally posted by Gold

As for the World's need, I doubt Bates or UTW have much collateral that the World is interested in.  I think this is more about clearing their name from claims that they cook their books, though I suspect they'll take what they can to cover the attorney fees.

I don't think that's the point.  When you've fallen on hard times (laying off 28 employees), getting rid of a competitor for advertising, by any means necessary, would probably be a temptation.

What advertising does UTW compete with the World for?  They appear to go after different markets.  The World advertises retail, auto, and a lot of more traditional large businesses that buy in bulk.  UTW goes after bars, small salons, and "massage parlors." (I always snicker when I think about the ideological leanings of that paper in relation to its ad content.)  There might be a little overlap in advertisers (Cherokee Casino), but not enough to constitute a motive for the lawsuit.

Try again.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by Kiah

quote:Originally posted by Gold

As for the World's need, I doubt Bates or UTW have much collateral that the World is interested in.  I think this is more about clearing their name from claims that they cook their books, though I suspect they'll take what they can to cover the attorney fees.

I don't think that's the point.  When you've fallen on hard times (laying off 28 employees), getting rid of a competitor for advertising, by any means necessary, would probably be a temptation.

Actually, I would suspect that the TW felt the need to do this to cover their own interests.  Businesses pay papers to advertise based upon how much circulation the paper receives.  If a business thought that the TW inflated its figures in the past, it might sue the paper.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Urban Tulsa and Bates' stock is way up in my estimation.  It seems that the World is having trouble adjusting to a more sophisticated Tulsa and an informed and feisty citizenry.  Maybe the bad economy and widespread industry ills will put the Tulsa World out of business.

I'm not sure the readers of a paper that supported the Bates/Medlock agenda is really a more sophisticated Tulsa.  It's not a bad paper and there is some value in there.  But . . . really?

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

Titus is a very good attorney and really one of the best in this area.

Get out the popcorn.  This should be interesting.

Bates is not a journalist and perhaps his lack of formal training in that area is finally coming back to bite him.  I won't shed a tear for him.

I have had voluminous dealings with this firm and they have very talented and skilled attorneys. You are correct, it should get interesting.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I want to sue somebody...

I think inteller's avatar leads to global warming and causes me to be sunburned.

See you in court.

actually it is an advertisement for weight loss.  you should try it.

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Urban Tulsa and Bates' stock is way up in my estimation.  It seems that the World is having trouble adjusting to a more sophisticated Tulsa and an informed and feisty citizenry.  Maybe the bad economy and widespread industry ills will put the Tulsa World out of business.

I'm not sure the readers of a paper that supported the Bates/Medlock agenda is really a more sophisticated Tulsa.  It's not a bad paper and there is some value in there.  But . . . really?

Questioning the TulsaWorld in itself suggests a more sophisticated citizenry.

I never seen a paper pursue it's own political agenda as openly as the TulsaWorld.

Urban Tulsa is comparable to other weekly publications in other cities but in general there is only one news source in OK I've come across that I admire and that is OETA's Nightly Oklahoma report.

[inteller]

I see people who I'd never imagine picking up a UTW.  Maybe they do because it is free or maybe because they need a date for the night, but UTW tends to empty the stands I pass by.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Urban Tulsa and Bates' stock is way up in my estimation.  It seems that the World is having trouble adjusting to a more sophisticated Tulsa and an informed and feisty citizenry.  Maybe the bad economy and widespread industry ills will put the Tulsa World out of business.

I'm not sure the readers of a paper that supported the Bates/Medlock agenda is really a more sophisticated Tulsa.  It's not a bad paper and there is some value in there.  But . . . really?

Questioning the TulsaWorld in itself suggests a more sophisticated citizenry.

I never seen a paper pursue it's own political agenda as openly as the TulsaWorld.

Urban Tulsa is comparable to other weekly publications in other cities but in general there is only one news source in OK I've come across that I admire and that is OETA's Nightly Oklahoma report.

Everything should be questioned.  That's part of an informed democracy.  That doesn't mean that everything is always wrong or that we should attack everything that is different from us or that we do not understand at first.  But, it sure helps to be engaged.

Your initial suggestion, as I took it, was not that questioning the World = informed citizenry, but rather, that Bates and UTW somehow lead to a more informed citizenry (if you did not mean to make that connection, I apologize).  

Bates is wrong on something a lot of the time and judging by election results, particularly the judicial elections, his column has no effect on the outcome.

The World's problems aren't unique to Tulsa.  Newspaper readership is down nationwide.  Part of that is new media, like the web.  I hope part of that is not TV journalism (not all bad, but often not the best way of gathering all the information).

I just hope that the journalists with training survive and continue to have a role in our system, as opposed to keyboard commandos who get a column in the local alternative newspaper/massage parlor ad.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

Here's a question for lawyers out there--Do you think that a paper would be considered a "public figure" for purposes of libel?  In other words, would a paper have to prove actual malice to win a libel case?  Talk about turning the tables....

One newspaper runs an article saying the other newspaper is ripping off it's advertisers (in essence). The competition for advertising might be enough to suggest malice.

[Hometown]

Well Gold, I would say that the fact that there is a paper here that would publish a controversial article about a local institution and a local writer was willing to take some risks in writing a controversial article would suggest some heightened sophistication.

Ever since my days as an Editor at the Ft. Star Telegram I've been reading about how expensive it is to run a paper.  But I can't help but believe that you and I could start something in a garage that would be pretty compelling.

My prayer for Tulsa, "God please give us a decent local daily newspaper."

Meanwhile, and in case that doesn't work out, I could go for the Dallas Morning News opening an expanded Tulsa Bureau and publishing a chucky Tulsa Edition and burying the TulsaWorld.

We need another voice with more credibility and some fresh blood to tell us who we are.

[cannon_fodder]

Per the libel and public figure question:

1) I don't think a business can be considered a public figure.  While a business can be parodied and otherwise treated LIKE a person and said rights are protected... it isn't a politician or other entity for which there is a greater value afforded criticism and thus greater protection should be afforded.

It's just another business.

2) The suit isn't really about ruining the reputation, journalistic integrity, or anything like that.  The allegation is that false statements were made the purpose of which was to lead readers to believe they were true.  These false statements could impact the company financially.

If he comment that they were all liars and their research suck or that they were extremely biases, etc.  That is protected.  But if he says their circulation figures are a fraud, that goes to the bottom line.  If they can prove the figures were correct and that Bates knew or should have known his documents were not correct, they will probably win.

/at least, in my 5 second analysis.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Well Gold, I would say that the fact that there is a paper here that would publish a controversial article about a local institution and a local writer was willing to take some risks in writing a controversial article would suggest some heightened sophistication.

Ever since my days as an Editor at the Ft. Star Telegram I've been reading about how expensive it is to run a paper.  But I can't help but believe that you and I could start something in a garage that would be pretty compelling.

My prayer for Tulsa, "God please give us a decent local daily newspaper."

Meanwhile, and in case that doesn't work out, I could go for the Dallas Morning News opening an expanded Tulsa Bureau and publishing a chucky Tulsa Edition and burying the TulsaWorld.

We need another voice with more credibility and some fresh blood to tell us who we are.

Just because someone publishes something controversial about a local institution does not mean it's "sophisticated."  I'm all for getting to the truth and challenging old notions.  But at what point do you become Paul Tay and simply do it for the attention?  

Again, I think a lot of this may have to do with Bates' lack of formal journalism training.  It's tough to write a weekly column and keep it interesting and accurate, especially when it deals with local politics most of the time.  I did enjoy the comment on the UTW site about simplifying Bates' columns to his dislike of the World, his dislike of the arena, and his desire to have Medlock's kids.

As for you DMN idea, I much prefer having a locally owned paper, for a variety of reasons.  It isn't perfect, but it isn't the rag the tinfoil hat crowd makes it out to be, either.