SPEED TRAPS IN TULSa

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Define 'speed trap'.

And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?

Lets pick:

1.  Tough beans.
2.  Move.
3.  Got better things to do.
4.  Hope your kids don't get run over.

It's a residential street.  What kind of speed limit would you like?

I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket.  DON'T SPEED!  It's simple and saves lives.  What a concept!

And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above.  And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35.  The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record.  So, 40 through a residential is too slow.  You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.

EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25.  The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do.  So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.

[N60OSU]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket.  DON'T SPEED!

Such a simplistic view would have traction if the, um, "enhanced enforcement efforts" werent strategically placed where the physics of the terrain precipitate transient spikes in the speed of otherwise law-abiding drivers.

Nailing someone disregarding the law on even ground is one thing, but metering people at the bottom of a hill is disingenuous and calculated.  

Perhaps it is calculated to force drivers to be aware of their speed at all times.  I got ticketed at 65th and Sheridan and it wasn't for any 10 over.  I earned every bit of it and it was an eye opener for me.  I started paying more attention to my speed and was surprised to realize how fast I was going just in general.  I'm more conscious of it now and have tried to change my habits.  

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by nathanm

It's pretty well proven that speeding tickets don't actually do any good. It does just as much good to post a single unit in a problem area to sit there and look pretty and make people's radar detectors go off.

Most folks slow down when they see an officer. The ones that fail to correct their speed should be ticketed.

Posting four officers in one location doesn't do much good.

The real solution is to narrow the roadway such that people don't want to speed.

Of course, here in Tulsa, we can't think outside the box like that, so we ticket and install speed bumps. They're both useless, but speed bumps are also dangerous and cause noise and pollution in the neighborhood.

Streets, roads and highways have to meet federal engineering standards.  Tulsa complies with the ANSI standards.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Define 'speed trap'.

And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?

Lets pick:

1.  Tough beans.
2.  Move.
3.  Got better things to do.
4.  Hope your kids don't get run over.

It's a residential street.  What kind of speed limit would you like?

I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket.  DON'T SPEED!  It's simple and saves lives.  What a concept!

And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above.  And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35.  The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record.  So, 40 through a residential is too slow.  You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.

EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25.  The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do.  So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.

Sorry, but that is incorrect.  Municipal courts from across the state do not send the conviction information to the state, thus the state never finds out about it, thus the conviction never goes on your driving record.  SP8 and SP9 violations are not reported.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Define 'speed trap'.

And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?

Lets pick:

1.  Tough beans.
2.  Move.
3.  Got better things to do.
4.  Hope your kids don't get run over.

It's a residential street.  What kind of speed limit would you like?

I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket.  DON'T SPEED!  It's simple and saves lives.  What a concept!

And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above.  And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35.  The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record.  So, 40 through a residential is too slow.  You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.

EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25.  The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do.  So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.  I have received a few speeding tickets over the years and can tell you first hand, not all of them show up on your driving record.  If you don't believe me, the next time you get pulled over, have the officer pull up your driving record and compare it to your driving record the DMV can pull.  I can guarantee you, it will be differ.  The DMV only goes back 5 yrs and DOES NOT list every ticket in that 5 years.  I don't know the exact rules or parameters, but they are not all listed.  I don't know where you got your information from, but it is incorrect.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by nathanm

It's pretty well proven that speeding tickets don't actually do any good. It does just as much good to post a single unit in a problem area to sit there and look pretty and make people's radar detectors go off.

Most folks slow down when they see an officer. The ones that fail to correct their speed should be ticketed.

Posting four officers in one location doesn't do much good.

The real solution is to narrow the roadway such that people don't want to speed.

Of course, here in Tulsa, we can't think outside the box like that, so we ticket and install speed bumps. They're both useless, but speed bumps are also dangerous and cause noise and pollution in the neighborhood.

Good Lord, I hope you never become a "leader" in our great city.  Your solution to people speeding is to narrow the roads? Narrow what roads? Do you know how many 2 lane roads we still have in this city that need to be widened?

"Speed Traps" might not work for some, but it will for others and it will make them more conscience of their overall speed in general.   But it's a natural reaction to slow down in areas you know the cops have targeted before, is it not?  

If you know there is a chance that cops are going to be in that area, because they have worked it before, chances are you going to slow down.  Thus, they have done their job...they have made you think about how fast you are going and more then likely be more attentive.

They only work the areas where people are hauling donkey.  You think they are going to work an area where people are going the speed limit?  

But since you guys are compiling a list here area a few..

-55th and Yale.  They usually hide out in the La Fortune parking lot by the stop light.

-Memorial between Pine and Admiral.  Usually sit on one of the side roads and get people headed southbound towards Admiral.

Airport Rd.  When leaving the airport and coming up to the stoplight to get on 11E, they will sit in the Radisson parking lot.  I have watched them get over 20 cars in a matter of 45 minutes.  Usually 2 work this area because the "kids" that go to Spartan drive like they are still in HS and just got their license.

OHP has been working the Creek Turnpike from 75 to 169 pretty heavily lately.

[zstyles]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket.  DON'T SPEED!

Nailing someone disregarding the law on even ground is one thing, but metering people at the bottom of a hill is disingenuous and calculated.  

EXACTLY....

[Gold]

Since last summer, it seems like every time I drive on Riverside near the Creek nation casino/lung destruction room I see someone pulled over.

About once a month there is a speed trap with motorcycles set up on the BA near downtown -- between the exit to 75 and the Denver/Cheyenne Exit.

My pet peeve is when there is someone with a radar gun near Cohlmia's (s/p) on 15th, just west over the overpass.  That's a pretty steep hill and if there's traffic, you could get caught going 10 mph over pretty easily if you have to maneuver for any reason.  Yes, I was stopped there once.[!]

[tulsascoot]

quote:Originally posted by nathanm

It's pretty well proven that speeding tickets don't actually do any good. It does just as much good to post a single unit in a problem area to sit there and look pretty and make people's radar detectors go off.

Most folks slow down when they see an officer. The ones that fail to correct their speed should be ticketed.

Posting four officers in one location doesn't do much good.

The real solution is to narrow the roadway such that people don't want to speed.

Of course, here in Tulsa, we can't think outside the box like that, so we ticket and install speed bumps. They're both useless, but speed bumps are also dangerous and cause noise and pollution in the neighborhood.

Perhaps this is just anecdotal, but I have found them to be very effective. When I was younger I got a lot of speeding tickets, and I finally decided it was getting too expensive and slowed down.

So, for me, they had their desired effect.


and "Nailing someone disregarding the law on even ground is one thing, but metering people at the bottom of a hill is disingenuous and calculated. "

I agree. I have been caught in a speed trap this way at least twice. I wasn't deliberately breaking the law. I feel their time would have been better used stopping people running red lights and tailgaiting.

[sauerkraut]

There is also a big speed trap on western parts of 71st. Meanwhile the crime rate skyrockets. I guess with the bad economy cities are hurting for money and they turn to speed traps. Many other cities are installing red light cameras and shorting the yellow light to catch more people and when a camera is installed the accident rate goes up at that intersection I understand.. Phoenix, AZ. has tons of Red-light cameras. The newest thing is getting to be speeding cameras, the state of Illinois is getting into that big time. The camera takes your picture and mails you a speeding ticket, and you get a surprise in the mail. I don't know if the camera's allow for any tolerance, but I heard stories that they give tickets if you go 2mph over the limit. Illnois had speed cameras on parts of I-74 in construction zones. I expect that speed cameras will find their way to more & more cities and states.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

Originally posted by nathanm

Airport Rd.  When leaving the airport and coming up to the stoplight to get on 11E, they will sit in the Radisson parking lot.  I have watched them get over 20 cars in a matter of 45 minutes.  Usually 2 work this area because the "kids" that go to Spartan drive like they are still in HS and just got their license.

i did not know this, but I will say it is pretty scummy and being a bad host to stake out around airports and bust visitors (as well as locals).  I see them bust people out by DIA a lot when I'm in Denver and I think its poor form.

[Mike 01Hawk]

OP.. I LOVED that little "secret" road back in the day when I lived over @ 31st and Sheridan.

Was always fun negotiating the traffic circle

What TPD really needs to do is enforce people who stop the normal flow of traffic on the highways... ie people who hang out in the left lane and refuse to get over.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982


Good Lord, I hope you never become a "leader" in our great city.  Your solution to people speeding is to narrow the roads? Narrow what roads? Do you know how many 2 lane roads we still have in this city that need to be widened?

"Speed Traps" might not work for some, but it will for others and it will make them more conscience of their overall speed in general.   But it's a natural reaction to slow down in areas you know the cops have targeted before, is it not?  

Good lord I hope you learn to think based on reason rather than emotion. There are studies on this subject. Look them up.

Nobody is talking about reducing lane count. Narrowing can take many forms. On arterials, allowing parallel parking in the right lane is a good one. Basically, if you restrict the lane width, people become less comfortable with driving at too high a speed.

Having pedestrians around also slows most drivers down.

You can already see this unintentionally in areas of town where the four lane arterials have very narrow lanes. Not many people are comfortable driving 45 in a 40 on them. Personally, I'm hardly comfortable driving 40 in traffic on those roads.

Then you see folks burning down Memorial south of 71st at 50 mph and faster, because the road is practically built like a highway.

Redesigning the road causes a permanent change in habit on that section of road. Speed traps have at best a transient effect on traffic speed.

We should be ticketing people for actual unsafe driving (tailgating, red light running, that sort of thing). There's no way to design a road to keep people from doing that. (aside from making sure stoplights are timed correctly to reduce red light violations..no short yellows..that sort of thing)

[dbacks fan]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

There is also a big speed trap on western parts of 71st. Meanwhile the crime rate skyrockets. I guess with the bad economy cities are hurting for money and they turn to speed traps. Many other cities are installing red light cameras and shorting the yellow light to catch more people and when a camera is installed the accident rate goes up at that intersection I understand.. Phoenix, AZ. has tons of Red-light cameras. The newest thing is getting to be speeding cameras, the state of Illinois is getting into that big time. The camera takes your picture and mails you a speeding ticket, and you get a surprise in the mail. I don't know if the camera's allow for any tolerance, but I heard stories that they give tickets if you go 2mph over the limit. Illnois had speed cameras on parts of I-74 in construction zones. I expect that speed cameras will find their way to more & more cities and states.

The redlight cameras I have no problem with. But the speed cameras I do have a issue with. This article also reveals that they stream live video around the clock. You will also see in the article that the State House of Reps. have passed a bill to have them removed.

[YoungTulsan]

quote:Originally posted by nathanm

Then you see folks burning down Memorial south of 71st at 50 mph and faster, because the road is practically built like a highway.

It wasn't ALMOST built like a highway, it WAS a highway - US 64 until 169 down to the Creek loop was completed.  I don't remember if the speed limit was higher back then though, because it was still in a somewhat populated area.  It is 45 in some spots and 50 in some spots, so people going 50mph isn't exactly insane.

I think one of the main causes of speeding (aside from lack of self control, I know) is the bad traffic planning.  People try to make up for lost time when they get caught in poorly timed traffic lights, poorly designed flow, etc.