SPEED TRAPS IN TULSa

[deinstein]

Wilbur - Are you a motorcycle cop?

[TeeDub]

If I intentionally run my car into a crowd of people....

Does that count as murder, traffic collision or do I get credit for both?

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Define 'speed trap'.

And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?

Lets pick:

1.  Tough beans.
2.  Move.
3.  Got better things to do.
4.  Hope your kids don't get run over.

It's a residential street.  What kind of speed limit would you like?

I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket.  DON'T SPEED!  It's simple and saves lives.  What a concept!

And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above.  And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35.  The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record.  So, 40 through a residential is too slow.  You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.

EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25.  The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do.  So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.  I have received a few speeding tickets over the years and can tell you first hand, not all of them show up on your driving record.  If you don't believe me, the next time you get pulled over, have the officer pull up your driving record and compare it to your driving record the DMV can pull.  I can guarantee you, it will be differ.  The DMV only goes back 5 yrs and DOES NOT list every ticket in that 5 years.  I don't know the exact rules or parameters, but they are not all listed.  I don't know where you got your information from, but it is incorrect.

I got my information from working for a company that provides MVRs to trucking companies, insurance companies.  I believe I know what I'm talking about here, because I worked for this company for about 5 years.

What you get from the state DMV is every ticket you've ever had.  What law enforcement gets about you may or may not be the same, but I will tell you they see everything else as well, as opposed to insurance companies who will typically get scrubbed records (any speeding ticket less the 10 miles over, non moving violations, fixit tickets, etc).

I am not trying to be rude, but that is complete BULL****!  Go down to any tag office and get a printout of your driving record.  It goes back the past 5 or 7 years.  IT DOES NOT SHOW EVERY TICKET YOU HAVE EVER HAD.  I have had 6 tickets in 10 yrs (most recently in 2006).  I can go down to my locagl tag office this very second, pay my 10 dollars and get a copy of my driving record and it will show no tickets.  How do I know this? I did it 1.5 months ago.  My driving record shows no tickets.  How could that be if I have had 6 tickets in 10yrs??  Sorry what you pulled from your company might show every ticket because it involves a CDL or what not. But I can assure you, for the avg person with a class D license, that is not the case.  

How many tickets have you had in your lifetime?  I would be willing to bet that they all DO NOT SHOW UP ON YOUR MVR that you get at the tag office.  Not trying to be an donkey, but you are misleading everyone in this thread thinking that the MVR will show EVERY ticket, which just isn't the case.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Define 'speed trap'.

And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?

Lets pick:

1.  Tough beans.
2.  Move.
3.  Got better things to do.
4.  Hope your kids don't get run over.

It's a residential street.  What kind of speed limit would you like?

I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket.  DON'T SPEED!  It's simple and saves lives.  What a concept!

And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above.  And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35.  The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record.  So, 40 through a residential is too slow.  You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.

EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25.  The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do.  So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.  I have received a few speeding tickets over the years and can tell you first hand, not all of them show up on your driving record.  If you don't believe me, the next time you get pulled over, have the officer pull up your driving record and compare it to your driving record the DMV can pull.  I can guarantee you, it will be differ.  The DMV only goes back 5 yrs and DOES NOT list every ticket in that 5 years.  I don't know the exact rules or parameters, but they are not all listed.  I don't know where you got your information from, but it is incorrect.

I got my information from working for a company that provides MVRs to trucking companies, insurance companies.  I believe I know what I'm talking about here, because I worked for this company for about 5 years.

What you get from the state DMV is every ticket you've ever had.  What law enforcement gets about you may or may not be the same, but I will tell you they see everything else as well, as opposed to insurance companies who will typically get scrubbed records (any speeding ticket less the 10 miles over, non moving violations, fixit tickets, etc).

I am not trying to be rude, but that is complete BULL****!  Go down to any tag office and get a printout of your driving record.  It goes back the past 5 or 7 years.  IT DOES NOT SHOW EVERY TICKET YOU HAVE EVER HAD.  I have had 6 tickets in 10 yrs (most recently in 2006).  I can go down to my locagl tag office this very second, pay my 10 dollars and get a copy of my driving record and it will show no tickets.  How do I know this? I did it 1.5 months ago.  My driving record shows no tickets.  How could that be if I have had 6 tickets in 10yrs??  Sorry what you pulled from your company might show every ticket because it involves a CDL or what not. But I can assure you, for the avg person with a class D license, that is not the case.  

How many tickets have you had in your lifetime?  I would be willing to bet that they all DO NOT SHOW UP ON YOUR MVR that you get at the tag office.  Not trying to be an donkey, but you are misleading everyone in this thread thinking that the MVR will show EVERY ticket, which just isn't the case.

Being a police officer who has worked traffic enforcement duties for 17+ years of my career, I'm well aware of what shows up on someone's driving record, having looked at untold 1000s over the years.  I'm well aware of the SP8 laws and SP9 laws that govern what speeding tickets go on your driving record and which ones do not. I'm well aware of what violations the Municipal Court reports to the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety.

Touche.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by TeeDub


If I intentionally run my car into a crowd of people....

Does that count as murder, traffic collision or do I get credit for both?

You actually get credit for both, but the traffic collision would not go on your driving record (although, that is the least of your worries), believe it or not.  Intentional acts are considered 'incidents' in the eyes of the state and 'incidents' are not considered collisions, even though they are reported on collision report forms.  Don't ask me why.  I don't get it either.

[Red Arrow]

In the early 70s, Memorial was 2 lanes south of the RR tracks just south of 41st St. There was some development between 51st & 61st. South of that was not much until around 121st and 131st where there were a few businesses and some housing well off Memorial. I remember a traffic light at the Fina station at 71st. It may have been 81st.  South of about 61st, the speed limit was 55. There was a steak house about 81st on the west side. There was a DX station at 91st. Sheridan and Mingo were unmarked south of about 71st. All were 2 lanes. Most were 4 way stops at the mile intersections except for Memorial. That led to several fatalities at 101st & Memorial since drivers (incorrectly) expected traffic on Memorial to also stop. Then the traffic light was installed. A few more fatalities occurred when drivers didn't see the light from 101st in the morning or evening sun.

As the area was developed, the road was eventually widened and the speed limit reduced. It seems to be a trend.  Make the road better, lower the speed limit.

My 1971 Phillips 66 Tulsa city street map ends just south of 71st. There are no streets in the entire section between 61st & 71st and between Memorial and Mingo. The mark on Memorial just below the (Route)64 symbol says "To Muskogee". They completely ignored Bixby, Leonard, Stone Bluff, Haskell and several more.

[sauerkraut]

I understand Oklahoma bans speed and red light cameras, but as more & more cities and states need easy money that ban on the cameras can be lifted. It just takes one bill in the state house to do that. I'd like to know how people in Arizona learned to deal with all the traffic cameras as was mentioned in that posted link story, do drivers know tricks to fool the cameras, or do drivers know how those speed/red light camera are tripped? They likely will expand the cameras in time and put them at stop signs, and school zones and where ever.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

I understand Oklahoma bans speed and red light cameras, but as more & more cities and states need easy money that ban on the cameras can be lifted. It just takes one bill in the state house to do that. I'd like to know how people in Arizona learned to deal with all the traffic cameras as was mentioned in that posted link story, do drivers know tricks to fool the cameras, or do drivers know how those speed/red light camera are tripped? They likely will expand the cameras in time and put them at stop signs, and school zones and where ever.

its called red camera spray and lots of people use it (just look for gunky looking plate numbers)

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

I understand Oklahoma bans speed and red light cameras, but as more & more cities and states need easy money that ban on the cameras can be lifted. It just takes one bill in the state house to do that.

A big story just today in London is that "Over 200,000 could get speed camera refund" because of improper signage.

Closer to home, the Minnesota Supreme Court had ruled that the use of automating ticketing machines violated state law and deprived motorists of due process, and is issuing $2.6 Million in refunds.
In addition to the city's fines, thousand of drivers paid hefty surcharges to their insurance company and about 300 had their drivers' licenses suspended as a result of the illegal photo tickets. A lawsuit was required to force the unwilling city to take action in May to clear the driving records of those affected.

North Carolina cities abandoned red light cameras after the state's highest court insisted that profit from the devices must be given to the public schools, instead of being pocketed by municipalities.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2666.asp

Tucson courts are expected to throw out up to 1000 tickets after a process server was allegedly caught falsifying documents,
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2665.asp
prompting a House of Representatives committee on Jan 22 to vote to ban the use of speed cameras on freeways.

Students in Montgomery County, Maryland began using fake license plates to send speed camera tickets to enemies.  The "Speed Camera Pimping Game" became possible because photo enforcement devices will automatically mail out a ticket to any registered vehicle owner based solely on a photograph of a license plate.
Instead of purchasing license plates, students have ready access to laser printers that can create duplicate license plates using glossy paper using readily available fonts.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2632.asp

And the state of Texas just busted two traffic camera companies for illegally operating as private investigators, following a similar move by Louisiana authorities.

So no, given the fraud, corruption and abuse associated with them, the future of automated traffic enforcement cameras doesnt look good.

[Rico]

Top Ten reasons for the case......for Speed Traps.!

1. Traffic stops are a primary path to the prevention of crime.

2. "Owasso Man" >>>>>>>

3..................




http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20090125_298_0_OWASSO607820


OWASSO — Police arrested an Owasso city councilor on a DUI complaint around 3 a.m. Sunday.

D.J. Gall, 37, was booked into the Tulsa Jail on complaints of a first-offense driving while intoxicated and obstructing a police officer.

Gall serves on the Owasso City Council in Ward 1 and also is vice mayor.

Other complaints against Gall include carrying a loaded firearm while intoxicated, failing to notify police of the gun, failure to provide a concealed-carry permit, and traveling 14 mph over the speed limit.

An officer pulled Gall over in the 14000 block of East 86th Street for alleged speeding, according to a probable cause statement. Police radar clocked Gall traveling 49 mph in a 35 mph zone, according to the report.

The officer reportedly detected alcohol on Gall's breath and stated that he had slurred speech and was unsteady on his feet. Gall would not follow directions for field sobriety tests, records show.

Asked more than once if he had been drinking, Gall allegedly told the officer "No." A male passenger in the vehicle passed a field sobriety test after admitting he had consumed two or three beers.

The officer searched the vehicle, a Toyota pickup, and discovered a pistol with 10 live rounds inside a Crown Royal bag tucked under the driver's seat.

Gall refused to take a breath test at the Owasso police station, according to the report.

He posted a $5,600 bond and was released at 2 p.m., records show.

Gall's three-year
term expires this year. He has said that he plans on running for re-election in April.

Gall could not be immediately reached Sunday.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Rico


Top Ten reasons for the case......for Speed Traps.!

1. Traffic stops are a primary path to the prevention of crime.

Just stopping everyone to see what you can find wrong with them worked well for the Nazis, Soviets, etc, but a free society should have the bar raised a bit higher.

RE the Owasso DUI, exercising your right to refuse a field sobriety test is "obstructing an officer"?
Really? [B)]

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

In the early 70s, Memorial was 2 lanes south of the RR tracks just south of 41st St. There was some development between 51st & 61st. South of that was not much until around 121st and 131st where there were a few businesses and some housing well off Memorial. I remember a traffic light at the Fina station at 71st. It may have been 81st.  South of about 61st, the speed limit was 55. There was a steak house about 81st on the west side. There was a DX station at 91st. Sheridan and Mingo were unmarked south of about 71st. All were 2 lanes. Most were 4 way stops at the mile intersections except for Memorial. That led to several fatalities at 101st & Memorial since drivers (incorrectly) expected traffic on Memorial to also stop. Then the traffic light was installed. A few more fatalities occurred when drivers didn't see the light from 101st in the morning or evening sun.

As the area was developed, the road was eventually widened and the speed limit reduced. It seems to be a trend.  Make the road better, lower the speed limit.

My 1971 Phillips 66 Tulsa city street map ends just south of 71st. There are no streets in the entire section between 61st & 71st and between Memorial and Mingo. The mark on Memorial just below the (Route)64 symbol says "To Muskogee". They completely ignored Bixby, Leonard, Stone Bluff, Haskell and several more.

If you want to see some fascinating photos on the chronology of intersections in town, visit the Beryl Ford Collection.

This one is of 71st and Sheridan, looking north on Sheridan in 1954.  They have heaps more than just that.

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Rico


Top Ten reasons for the case......for Speed Traps.!

1. Traffic stops are a primary path to the prevention of crime.

Just stopping everyone to see what you can find wrong with them worked well for the Nazis, Soviets, etc, but a free society should have the bar raised a bit higher.

RE the Owasso DUI, exercising your right to refuse a field sobriety test is "obstructing an officer"?
Really? [B)]

Surely that wasn't what prompted the "obstructing" charge.

[dbacks fan]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

I understand Oklahoma bans speed and red light cameras, but as more & more cities and states need easy money that ban on the cameras can be lifted. It just takes one bill in the state house to do that. I'd like to know how people in Arizona learned to deal with all the traffic cameras as was mentioned in that posted link story, do drivers know tricks to fool the cameras, or do drivers know how those speed/red light camera are tripped? They likely will expand the cameras in time and put them at stop signs, and school zones and where ever.

You can't really fool the cameras, the fixed point ones along the freeways are well marked in advance and they are set for 11mph over the posted limit. Most people drive the same routes every day and just check their speed when approaching one. I think in the first month to six weeks their were 100,000 citations issued from all of the cameras around the state both fixed and mobile. Of those only 30% actually paid the fines. My brother in law lives in Vegas and got one over Thanksgiving. He showed me the citation with a picture of him driving and of the licsense plate. The citation was sent to his wife since the vehicle is registered to her. She filled out the part that says she was not the driver, and the citation got tossed. A lot of people do that, register their vehicle in their name and then drive the spouses vehicle registered in the spouses name.
Also, several were tossed because the guy who was sitting in a mobile unit, was arrested for DUI while driving his mobile unit after working one day in Scottsdale. He was drinking on the job in a DPS truck.

[sauerkraut]

That license plate spray sounds good, I never heard of it. I always thought people had the right to face their accusers when charged with a crime, but courts have ruled that you can get a camera ticket and charged with a crime even if the camera does not show up in court to be cross-examed. Cameras seem un-constitunal to me.