The Stimulus Package Unleashed

[Gaspar]

No.  Do you?

This is what I meant by constituencies. 

No, my life is very much not affected by these agencies.  On the other hand, I can guarantee you that some people ARE affected.  Just because I don't need the particular service doesn't mean that someone doesn't. 

I know, I know, how liberal of me. But it's less about my expansive love for my fellow man as recognizing that we have a huge nation and that people need our government for different things.

As a nation we have an increasing population attaching itself to the tit.  We cannot afford this.
We need to free some people.  Sure, it will be hard and lives will be affected, but it's simply inhumane to continue to develop dependency.

We can do it willfully, or we can just let things implode, and conveniently blame Bush. 

[Conan71]

No.  Do you?

This is what I meant by constituencies.  

No, my life is very much not affected by these agencies.  On the other hand, I can guarantee you that some people ARE affected.  Just because I don't need the particular service doesn't mean that someone doesn't.  

I know, I know, how liberal of me. But it's less about my expansive love for my fellow man as recognizing that we have a huge nation and that people need our government for different things.

Actually, I have quite a bit of experience dealing with government at the city, county, state, and federal level.  It would probably serve all of us better to have a better idea of how big government is and how much administration goes into each level of it.  It would also be a very good idea for us to know what each bureau and department does because when it comes down to finally having to wean ourselves off government services to stay solvent, we need to know what is an important function of government and what is something which we don't need or can be done via the private sector.  Government creates many layers of administration via their own rules and policies.  Don't believe me?  Just try to navigate Federal purchasing, or the VA, or deal with the DLA.

If you fully read my first longer post, you will note that government creates scenarious where it limits competition for it's business and winds up paying more money for items in it's procurement procedures to be "fair".

So we should just assume that because the government creates an agency either as an offshoot via existing agency policy, executive order, enacted by Congress that it's necessary or an appropriate use of government authority and taxpayer money?  Shouldn't we, as citizens, demand more oversight?  Saying we are a large country and therefore our government should be commensurately large isn't liberalism, it's apathy. 

How can the government afford to grow, when it can't even afford the services it's trying to provide now?  Just because the government can borrow trillions of dollars to spend doesn't mean they can afford the expenditures.  Now the feds are trying to send more stimulus money to states who aren't living within their means and who apparently can't raise more tax revenue out of their citizens.  It's just wonderful!

[TURobY]

We need to free some people.

But whom shall we "free" is the question. While Guido seems to believe parks and transit should be eliminated, I disagree. We both have our reasons, both likely equally as correct in our beliefs.

[we vs us]

As a nation we have an increasing population attaching itself to the tit.  We cannot afford this.
We need to free some people.  Sure, it will be hard and lives will be affected, but it's simply inhumane to continue to develop dependency.

We can do it willfully, or we can just let things implode, and conveniently blame Bush. 

That's ridiculous and condescending.  I'm sorry, but it is.  Using government services, and in some cases demanding services from government that haven't existed up till this point, is how government is meant to function.  It doesn't automatically mean that you're some benighted untermenschen because you get an FHA loan to buy a house, or take advantage of the child care deduction on your income tax to help make ends meet.

This is not dependency.  This is collective action taken on our behalf. Take it or leave it but don't diminish my standing as a citizen because I think my government should respond to my needs (and yours, by the way).  

There are happy mediums to all these things, and I'm willing to allow that there is corruption and "bad" (not good) redundancy in these orgs, but this hostility to all but the barest bones of government just completely weirds me out.  Times change, government should change, too.  Our times are more and more complex; is it any wonder, then, that our government is, too?  

[waterboy]

Nice thread. Who to follow? The simple solutions guy who can't spell "teat", or the smarter than me guy who blows me away with "benighted untermenschen"?

[Red Arrow]

That's ridiculous and condescending.  I'm sorry, but it is.  Using government services, and in some cases demanding services from government that haven't existed up till this point, is how government is meant to function.  ....  This is not dependency.  This is collective action taken on our behalf.

I need struts and front end parts on my car.  I think I'll demand that the government pay for it.  If there isn't a program to do that, I'll petition Pres. Obama to establish one.

[nathanm]

I think it's funny that you guys are arguing over the agencies that in total make up less than a quarter of the federal budget. What's the point in even discussing the rounding error agencies?

Even though I disagree that a large budget deficit this year or next is in any way a bad thing, I do agree that some longer term changes need to be made so that once the recession is over we'll be able to get back to where we were 10 years ago: budget surplus.

I think most everyone in this thread needs to take a good hard look at this years death & taxes infographic. Perhaps then some sanity would arrive in this thread.

Edited to add: Gaspar? Were you seriously arguing that the government shouldn't spend money on websites through which it creates more transparency by giving us a better idea of what the various agencies are supposed to be doing and what it is that they do?

[guido911]

You have no economic future without them, as people like me move away to cities with them. So... yes.

You might just have no economic "present" by having them. Conan, I agree that these programs are not essential and considered expected. But in times like these, shouldn't we all have a little less on the expectation side of government and focus more on what is essential?

And as for the feds, is the national endowment for the arts THAT important.

[Red Arrow]

I think it's funny that you guys are arguing over the agencies that in total make up less than a quarter of the federal budget. What's the point in even discussing the rounding error agencies?

I agree.  The cost of fixing my car is insignificant compared to the federal budget. It sure would help me.

[guido911]

I think it's funny that you guys are arguing over the agencies that in total make up less than a quarter of the federal budget. What's the point in even discussing the rounding error agencies?

Because you have to start freakin somewhere if you want to cut the budget. Do you have a budget or ever used one?  Do you budget for dinners out, movies, vacations and the like when you don't have the money to pay your mortgage or put food on the table?

[rwarn17588]

OK, boys, start choppin'.

http://crfb.org/stabilizethedebt/

[TURobY]

OK, boys, start choppin'.

http://crfb.org/stabilizethedebt/

Funny, I just had to reduce military spending (while still maintaining a size and budget WELL over every other country) and I fixed the issue...

Seems like I found a spot to cut the budget, Guido.

[we vs us]

I need struts and front end parts on my car.  I think I'll demand that the government pay for it.  If there isn't a program to do that, I'll petition Pres. Obama to establish one.

I'm actually open to this . . . or rather, I'm open to you pursuing this.  I'd actually like to suggest that you make this a local issue, because there's a good chance that, if you federalize it, it won't get addressed in a timely fashion (cf. immigration reform).


EDIT:  I would, however, like to state unequivocally that I (and most of my liberal friends) won't be voting for the Front End and Struts Party unless you can add a strong anti-global-warming plank . . . and can respect individual reproductive rights.

[Red Arrow]

I'm actually open to this . . . or rather, I'm open to you pursuing this.  I'd actually like to suggest that you make this a local issue, because there's a good chance that, if you federalize it, it won't get addressed in a timely fashion (cf. immigration reform).


EDIT:  I would, however, like to state unequivocally that I (and most of my liberal friends) won't be voting for the Front End and Struts Party unless you can add a strong anti-global-warming plank . . . and can respect individual reproductive rights.

I only want to establish a government agency to assist me financially in affording to keep my car, which I need in Tulsa since we don't have effective Public Transit.  Maintaining my car will allow me to keep my vehicle under control and not allow it run into other motorists, bicyclists, or pedestrians. That will be the benefit to the general public.  As far as green, it will take a lot less energy to fix the car I have rather than manufacturing a new car.  I am not interested in establishing a new political party.  This particular car has no particular relation to individual reproductive rights but it is German so it would probably support them.

[Red Arrow]

Funny, I just had to reduce military spending (while still maintaining a size and budget WELL over every other country) and I fixed the issue...

Seems like I found a spot to cut the budget, Guido.

I think provide for the common defense was one of the things the founding documents called out as a responsibility of the Federal Gov.

The Federal Acquisition Regulations (I think that's the correct full name.) contribute greatly to the high cost of defense related products and services.