Elderly Drivers

[sauerkraut]

Hey gang, I was wondering what the pulse is here  about having a max. age limit for old drivers. I strongly support a age limit of around 70 years old, and would support a group like MADD (maybe PFDAL people for driver age limits) note the 88 year old driving the wrong way for 40 miles on I-80.. http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10551989

[sauerkraut]

As we age we all lose ability to drive, our reflexes slip, eyes get bad, memory loss, and mix that with driving a 4,000 pound machine and you have trouble. Driving requires 100% alertness and reaction time, Such as the eye sees the danger ahead and the brain has to process that danger and tell the arms and legs what to do, as we age that split second dely time gets longer and makes driving dangerous for old drivers. I also favor raising the driving age from 16 to 18. Teens crash because they have show off and don't pay attention- Older drivers crash because they lost the ability to drive. Re-testing does not work and the DMV  keeps re-testing old drivers over & over till they finally pass the test one day, and back on the road they go. I don't drive as good as I did when I was 30, none of us do. I have written my reps about having a max. age limit for drivers. I did my part.

[Red Arrow]

We've had this discussion before.  Everyone ages differently. Some should never have a license regardless of their age. I think a mandatory age limit would unjustly limit the mobility of too many people. If your driving is already so much worse than when you were 30, maybe you should give up your license now.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

We've had this discussion before.  Everyone ages differently. Some should never have a license regardless of their age. I think a mandatory age limit would unjustly limit the mobility of too many people. If your driving is already so much worse than when you were 30, maybe you should give up your license now.

Agreed. How old was the pilot that landed the plane in the river?

When we stop people from driving with cells, eating, drinking, putting on makeup and smoking stuff then we could look at a statistically small contributor to accidents...age.

[joiei]

Saurkraut, how old are you to feel that 70 is too old to drive?   Just because we don't hot rod around like we used to does not necessarily mean that we are incapable of driving.  I tend to be more careful and considerate of other drivers than I used to be when I was a younger whipper snapper.

I am in favor of driver retraining and retesting that could start at 70 but not to deny anyone over 70 the right to drive.

[HoneySuckle]

To have such an age limit (there are some out there that should NOT be driving), we need better public transport.  It totally sucks in Tulsa and many other parts of the US.

At least in countries with good public transport, the oldies have an alternative method for getting around.

My Dad was 80 when he died and still driving. He was better than most teens I know!

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

We've had this discussion before.  Everyone ages differently. Some should never have a license regardless of their age. I think a mandatory age limit would unjustly limit the mobility of too many people. If your driving is already so much worse than when you were 30, maybe you should give up your license now.

Everyone ages differently- Still,  A commerical airline pilot has to give up flying when he hits age 60 no matter how healthy he is. He can run 10 miles a day, do 50 push-ups one handed, and he can live a good clean healthy life, but the one thing he won't be doing after his 60th birthday is flying. There is a reason for that law and it's been around for decades, as we age our memory loss increses, reaction time slows heart attack risk jumps and so on. I think that even air traffic controllers have to hang it up on their 60th birthday too. Drivers of cars are no different they also age the same way. This is not a matter of feeling sorry for old people it's a matter of life & death.

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by HoneySuckle

To have such an age limit (there are some out there that should NOT be driving), we need better public transport.  It totally sucks in Tulsa and many other parts of the US.

At least in countries with good public transport, the oldies have an alternative method for getting around.

My Dad was 80 when he died and still driving. He was better than most teens I know!

Yes, but your dad still drove much better when he was 40 years old than when he was 80 years old, we all age and lose ability. Driving requires fast reaction time in nano seconds, drivers have to respond to emergencys. Teens crash because they show off and don't attention to driving. Old people crash because they lost the ability to drive. I do think the teen driving age should be raised to 18. The link I posted told of a 80 year old going 40 miles the wrong way on I-80 lost in a "brain" fog, she could of killed many people. Alot of old people even do admit that they don't drive too good but they still keep driving forcing family members to pull their keys. I think a big problem is too many people feel sorry for old people and look the other way and let them keep driving, but driving is a matter of life & death it puts their life at risk too. I strongly favor a max. age driving age of around 70 years old. I have been writting my state reps about it too. []

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by joiei

Saurkraut, how old are you to feel that 70 is too old to drive?   Just because we don't hot rod around like we used to does not necessarily mean that we are incapable of driving.  I tend to be more careful and considerate of other drivers than I used to be when I was a younger whipper snapper.

I am in favor of driver retraining and retesting that could start at 70 but not to deny anyone over 70 the right to drive.

I'm in my early 50's. I will have the good sense to give up driving when I get old. I drive good, but I bet I drove much better 20 years ago, I'm sure I had better eye sight and better reaction time when I was 30 years old.. I am also a running nut, I have been running since 1980 and my running times have slowed down alot as I got older. Back in 1980 I could hold a 7.5 pace (and better) easy, today I'm lucky to hold a 8.5 pace. That is why when runners sign up for a race we go by age groups. It's unfair for a 50+ year old like me to race against a 30 year old, my ability has dropped because I'm getting old, we all get old. Driving ability is no different. I think a flat age limit of  70 years old is time to hang up the keys. Cities/states can improve mass-transit and offer free taxi vouchers for those over 70 years old. Giving up driving also saves you alot of money in gas, car insurance and repairs, money that can be spent on vacations. Why keep driving when you retire anyhow, enjoy life. I'm pushing for a max. age driving law and I write my reps all the time about it.

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

We've had this discussion before.  Everyone ages differently. Some should never have a license regardless of their age. I think a mandatory age limit would unjustly limit the mobility of too many people. If your driving is already so much worse than when you were 30, maybe you should give up your license now.

Agreed. How old was the pilot that landed the plane in the river?

When we stop people from driving with cells, eating, drinking, putting on makeup and smoking stuff then we could look at a statistically small contributor to accidents...age.

There is alot of work to be done no question about that to make driving safer. The pilot who landed in the river was 58 years old and guess what? Hereo or not in two more years he won't be flying. Commerical pilots can't fly anymore past age 60.There is a reason for that law and it's been around for decades.

[Ed W]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

The pilot who landed in the river was 58 years old and guess what? Hereo or not in two more years he won't be flying. Commerical pilots can't fly anymore past age 60.There is a reason for that law and it's been around for decades.

When civil air regulations requiring mandatory retirement at 60 were enacted, it's very likely that the average life expectancy was about 60.  Medical advances and better nutrition have pushed the average to around 75, and there's no indication of rapid mental or physical deterioration between 60 and 75.  Sure, an older person doesn't have the fast reaction times, but it's likely he'll exercise better judgment.  I'd prefer to have a gray-haired pilot at the controls, one with lots of practical experience and simulator time.

[HoneySuckle]

I am in my 40s and can tell that I am not as alert or quick as I used to be.  Adding to that, I have difficulty seeing at night (has worsened over the years).  I do not drive at night anymore.  When I realised a couple months ago that I could barely see the white line in the street because of oncoming traffic, I decided to quit.  

But the REAL problem we face nowadays isn't the age of drives, but those blasted people who can't quit using their cell phones and TEXTING while driving!!

Can you write about that too?  To pass a law prohibiting drivers from using their cellphones while driving?

[waterboy]

Sauer, your cause is not based in any factual basis. You would have a hero pilot benched, simply..."because the rules say so and there are good reasons for rules". That is just lame.

When those rules were written, 747's with computer aided systems were only just being conceived. Planes were designed like a Packard cab without power steering. Men died at an average age of 68 and women some 10 years later(Consider your rules didn't even allow women could do the job, much less women whose life spans were 10years longer than men!) What do you do about that? Shouldn't women be allowed to drive longer than men?

Men have gone on rockets into space at the age you would have them benched. Somehow their reaction time was not critical. In fact reation time is not critical at any age unless you're a competitive athlete. GASP! Paul Newman was driving competitively at 70 and beating younger men! His skill, guts, experience and passion beat their reaction time, lack of discipline and lack of experience. Lets just say your thinking is archaic considering the advances in health care, lifestyle enhancements and technological advances.

The rules need changed. The entire population should be retested at periodic intervals regardless of age. Driving with cell phones, texting, speeding, tailgating, engaging in conversation, eating, smoking and driving under the influence of drugs are all a greater risk than a 72 year old driver. Take that on as a cause and I'm with you.

[Red Arrow]

The FAA raised the mandatory retirement age for airline (Part 121) pilots to 65. A commercial pilot (Part 91) can fly as long as he/she can get a 2nd Class medical.  I haven't checked for Charter Operation (Part 135) pilots.  All pilots must have a biennial (every 2 yrs) flight review with an instructor unless the pilot does another qualifying action like adding a rating such as instrument rating. The check ride that airline pilots do every 6 months qualifies for the Biennial Flight Review.

An individual airline company may or may not have kept the age 60 limit.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

The FAA raised the mandatory retirement age for airline (Part 121) pilots to 65. A commercial pilot (Part 91) can fly as long as he/she can get a 2nd Class medical.  I haven't checked for Charter Operation (Part 135) pilots.  All pilots must have a biennial (every 2 yrs) flight review with an instructor unless the pilot does another qualifying action like adding a rating such as instrument rating. The check ride that airline pilots do every 6 months qualifies for the Biennial Flight Review.

An individual airline company may or may not have kept the age 60 limit.

Is an ATP flying part 121 still required to get a class 1 med every six months, or did they change that?

I was still flying actively when they changed the class III from 2 to 3 years.  I wasn't really sure that was such a great idea as airlines and freight/charter ops have a lot more at stake if one of their pilots leaves a smoking hole in the ground, therefore they would police themselves better.  There probably quite a few private pilots out there taking various meds and flying with questionable health issues that a check every three years just isn't frequent enough.  Final report just came out on a private crash that happend on the Will Rogers Turnpike where they think the pilot was impaired on prescription meds.