Fire Consumes Skyscraper, It does not collapse

[altruismsuffers]

I have one question, how does WTC 7 fall from "Thermal Expansion", and this building burned outright and did not collapse?  

Fire Consumes WTC 7 Size Skyscraper

"NIST!!! You have some splainin to do!!!"

[Townsend]

I see a market for sprinkler systems in the middle kingdom.

[cannon_fodder]

lol.  I know what happened.  

quote:A tinfoil hat source says
both WTC 7 and the twin towers were destroyed by explosives that were seen and heard by dozens of eyewitnesses who were at ground zero.
. . .
Office fires - even the flame shooting towering inferno variety - cannot cause modern buildings to implode in on themselves and collapse.

George Bush hired the airlines to get stunt people to pretend to hijack the planes so they could reduce their inventories of planes.  To set it up they had pretend terrorists attend fake flight schools for years and even created a fake mastermind and fake communications. They then had those stunt people make fake phone calls to their loved ones pretending to be on airplanes and then relocated them in the witness protection program.  Meanwhile, air traffic controllers were bribed to report pretend planes doing pretend things.  THEN, fake planes were flown into buildings in NYC, fighter jets shot down a random plane in Pennsylvania, and a cruise missile was shot at the Pentagon.  PREVIOUSLY, thousands of tons of explosives were secretly placed on the buildings and strategic columns weakened.  After the planes hit they let the buildings burn for a little while and fake people were thrown from them to give firefighters a chance to run into the buildings.  THEN, they detonated explosives and took down all the buildings so that they could profit.  

George Bush was a mastermind.  The government is really good at super giant elaborate plans and keeping secrets forever.  Engineers are stupid can can't really know what happened/every respectable engineer on the planet is bribed by the government.  AND, while we can't figure out how they profited from it, I'm sure they did.

Or...

MY THEORY... and the one engineers and demolition experts that actually have degrees and looked into this, is that 25% of the structural integrity of WTC7 was lost on the bottom 10 floors when the side facing the towers was destroyed by the falling debris.   Furthermore, the foundation was damaged by the destruction of the towers coupled with the earthquake like intensity of the collapse.  Combined with 7 hours of fire the structure resulted in a pancake collapse.

A building constructed post 9/11 and 30 years later likely has more high tech engineering and fire suppression.  Lack of the collapse of a 100 story structure next door and a firm foundation probably also helped.  Otherwise, perfect example of how similar these two are. (conspiracy theorist will consistently ignore the 25% damage figure as it doesn't help their cause.  They will also ignore the WHY factor and the mass of people that would have to be involved.  They also refuse to admit that GW was a genius who perpetrated the greatest unknown crime of all time.)

Also, the site says WTC 7 fell "within 7 seconds on 9/11."  Wow, really?  Unreal.  I thought it would fall in slow motion UNLESS explosives brought it down.  Explosives increase the force of gravity you know.  

The sites actual slogan is "the truth will set you free."  Other headlines on the main site:

- Report Of "People Planting Bombs" on 9/11

- Newly Released Footage: Pentagon Witness Describes Second Plane Following Flight 77 on 9/11

IN OTHER NEWS, super secret government alien plots and JFK myths are down 75% since 911.  Engineers and demolition experts, or PrisonPlanet.com.  Choices choices choices.

[nathanm]

You know what really sucks? The conspiracy theorists saying stupid things like the buildings were brought down by explosives, or that a cruise missile was shot at the pentagon make it impossible to have a reasonable discussion on the improbability of 7WTC's collapse.

And that they disposed of the evidence so quickly that it gives the kooks a lot of room to operate. That really sucks. They shouldn't have melted down all the evidence as fast as they possibly could. Steel prices weren't that high at the time!

(Note that improbability does not in any way imply malicious action)

I figure it was that electrical substation that the building was partly cantilevered over and the tens of thousands of gallons of diesel fuel burning at the point at which the load of all the cantilevered upper floors was transferred to the smaller floor area lower floors.

Most of the damage caused to the WFC buildings was cosmetic. Blown out windows and a messed up facade mainly. There's not much reason 7WTC should have been different.

It does seem that in the absence of the collapse of the first building, there probably would have been no collapsed buildings on that day. Just a whole lot more demolition work to be done.[}:)]

[sgrizzle]

No matter how unwilling to accept complex scientific principles some religious fundamentalists are, Altrusmurfers comes along to set the bar just that much higher.

I tried to start my truck the other day and it didn't start despite the fact many similar vehicles started just fine. I have been looking for black box devices installed by George Bush, Halliburton, the NSA and Colonel Sanders.

Sometimes when I try to make a phone call on my cell phone, it doesn't go through, despite the fact that they do 99% of the time. I suspect a conspiracy perpetrated by the land line phone companies in conjuction with Dick Cheney, the Coast Guard, and the Waltons.

If you haven't heard, the real secret agenda is from the Knights Doppler, or Cloud Elders as they are sometimes called. http://www.theonion.com/content/video/weather_channel_accused_of_pro

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle
I suspect a conspiracy perpetrated by the land line phone companies in conjuction with Dick Cheney, the Coast Guard, and the Waltons.

The Waltons? The family from "Little House on the Prairie"?

I never trusted them.

[cannon_fodder]

Don't forget the Queen, the Vatican, the gettys, the Rothchilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tits up.

I do agree that an honest discussion would be fun.  But they start with the premise that there is a conspiracy and set out to "prove" it.

[altruismsuffers]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Don't forget the Queen, the Vatican, the gettys, the Rothchilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tits up.

I do agree that an honest discussion would be fun.  But they start with the premise that there is a conspiracy and set out to "prove" it.

Alright Cannon, you made a reasonable request I would like to honor it.  Lets have an honest discussion and try to limit the 3rd grade nonsense.

[MDepr2007]

quote:Originally posted by altruismsuffers

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Don't forget the Queen, the Vatican, the gettys, the Rothchilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tits up.

I do agree that an honest discussion would be fun.  But they start with the premise that there is a conspiracy and set out to "prove" it.

Alright Cannon, you made a reasonable request I would like to honor it.  Lets have an honest discussion and try to limit the 3rd grade nonsense.

First you have to advance above the 2nd grade mentality to even get to 3rd grade nonsense...

[altruismsuffers]

This is a detailed explanation of how WTC 7 could not have collapsed as explained by NIST produced by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.

WTC7: Nist Finally Admits Freefall (Part I)

WTC7: Nist Finally Admits Freefall (Part II)

WTC7: Nist Finally Admits Freefall (Part III)

[Neptune]

You know, here's what I don't understand:

The Cylons nuked the planets of the twelve colonies, including Caprica City.  A city of seven million, they dropped at least 5 or 6 nuclear bombs on it.  Later, the city seems intact.  

If these were high level nukes dropped for EMP effect only, what the heck happened to all the people?

[Hawkins]

quote:Originally posted by Neptune

You know, here's what I don't understand:

The Cylons nuked the planets of the twelve colonies, including Caprica City.  A city of seven million, they dropped at least 5 or 6 nuclear bombs on it.  Later, the city seems intact.  

If these were high level nukes dropped for EMP effect only, what the heck happened to all the people?

Nuetron bombs, my friend. Nuetron bombs.

[Neptune]

quote:Originally posted by Hawkins

Nuetron bombs, my friend. Nuetron bombs.

I could see that, except, the first episode gave every indication that these were thermonuclear detonations.  The buildings seemed to have been leveled.  Yet later, even most the windows are intact.

Maybe it was a combination of both devices.  Level parts of it, just incinerate the civilians everywhere else.  

Or maybe it was a conspiracy between President Adar and the cylons. Adar is probably living it up on Caprica now.  Tricky republicans.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle
I suspect a conspiracy perpetrated by the land line phone companies in conjuction with Dick Cheney, the Coast Guard, and the Waltons.

The Waltons? The family from "Little House on the Prairie"?

I never trusted them.

C'mon, RM, I know you're better at trivia than that--the Waltons lived in Virginia (closer to DC, so the could plot to overthrow the government).  The Ingalls were on the Prairie. Get your bad 70s tv straight.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by altruismsuffers

This is a detailed explanation of how WTC 7 could not have collapsed as explained by NIST produced by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.

WTC7: Nist Finally Admits Freefall (Part I)

WTC7: Nist Finally Admits Freefall (Part II)

WTC7: Nist Finally Admits Freefall (Part III)

This is why no one takes it seriously.  One statement over the course of an 8 year investigation is used to PROVE that they REALLY know what happened.  Better yet, the implication is that those videos are the findings of the NIST.  Those videos are not produced, endorsed, nor supported by the findings of the NIST.

quote:"Video and photographic evidence combined with detailed computer simulations show that neither explosives nor fuel oil fires played a role in the collapse of WTC 7," [NIST WTC Lead Investigator] Sunder said.

Here is the link to the website the NIST has set up to debunk the myth that you are propogating:
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/wtc_qa_082108.html

The report, released in December of 2008, includes tidbits that seem to be directly to your point.  Discussing why WTC7 was destroyed and many other buildings were not by fires.  

quote:Did investigators consider the possibility that an explosion caused or contributed to the collapse of WTC 7?

Yes, this possibility was investigated carefully. NIST concluded that blast events inside the building did not occur and found no evidence supporting the existence of a blast event.

. . .

Is it possible that thermite or thermate contributed to the collapse of WTC 7?

NIST has looked at the application and use of thermite and has determined that its use to sever columns in WTC 7 on 9/11/01 was unlikely.

I would be happy to have a real debate, but it is pointless.  The conspiracy ilk will take any thread they can and pretend it is a finding that supports them.  No matter what evidence is found, no matter what findings of fact, no matter what... you'd still claim it was a grand conspiracy.  So why bother?

Logically, you can not cling to one statement and pretend it PROVES that engineers, scientist, demolition experts, and architects have shown that it was taken down by a vast conspiracy.   In this instance, the NIST findings are VERY clear that there is no evidence to support the conspiracy theory - in spite of what the 3 part youtube video might say.  

I'm more than happy to call BS on the government.  But in this instance it simply doesn't fit.  Blowing up WTC 1 and 2 wasn't good enough, they REALLY needed that 3rd building to make it dramatic (never mind who THEY are or why THEY would want to or why none of THEM has blabbed for the game and publicity).

and my quote wasn't on the 3rd grade level, it was a movie quote I hoped someone would pick up on.  I've given you a good bit of respect in my replies considering the topic, but the very notions that you are raising as NEW have been very well covered by the source you cited.

http://wtc.nist.gov/