Re: "Remarks by Dummies" on zoning issues

[Limabean]

Okay, I can't remember exactly what the title of the Task Force is, I admit it.

I am referring to the Mayor's Task Force that Bill Christiansen is heading up on all of the zoning issues affecting the city right now.

I attended the meeting last week wehre Wayne Alberty gave less than half of his presentation on the zoning/PUD process in Tulsa in over a 1 hour period. I heard several references by the building representatives to the Task Force that neighborhoods are not smart enough to understand the zoning process and that was where the problems were occurring.

Okay, take a deep breath and let bygones be bygones. Inner peace, harmony and all that stuff.

This week Julie Hall gave the neighborhood side of the story showing examples where zoning has gone wrong, i.e. Sonoma Grande and a single residence near Monte Cassino where the howeowner will not have a home in a matter of time due to flooding by the new house built next door to her.

Now I was not at the meeting but what was reported to me was that, Paul Kane, the director of the local Homebuilder's Asssociation, had a very helpful comment after Julie Hall's presentation. Paul said that the city should take INCOG's existing brochure taht explains zoning to the public and make it more like "Zoning for Dummies". Yes, Paul Kane actually said that.

Am I over-reacting here? Does anyone else see why neighborhoods have a problem with the development community?

I told myself that I didn't care anymore. I would rise above our differences and work to make a better city.

How are you supposed to deal with that kind of mentality? "Zoning for Dummies"!

I am really surprised that any one of the homeowners present who have lost significant value in their homes due to the city failing in their assigned duties to the taxpayers didn't walk over and ..........................

[waterboy]

Now I was not at the meeting but what was reported to me was that, Paul Kane, the director of the local Homebuilder's Asssociation, had a very helpful comment after Julie Hall's presentation. Paul said that the city should take INCOG's existing brochure taht explains zoning to the public and make it more like "Zoning for Dummies". Yes, Paul Kane actually said that.

Am I over-reacting here?

Yes. You are overeacting.

Its a tongue in cheek reference to very popular and useful texts used for the last two decades on a myriad of subjects. Did you overreact to them also? I didn't get upset when Microsoft XP for Dummies was introduced. I suspect he agrees with most of us that the code is probably loaded with technical jargon related to the industry that the layman does not understand. It took many decades to forge these rules based on experience and insight. A simplification of rules, goals and terms is really a good idea. Unless you just like overeacting and assuming everyone who disagrees with you is dismissive.

[TURobY]

How are you supposed to deal with that kind of mentality? "Zoning for Dummies"!

The "... for Dummies" is a series of books that are useful for getting people up to speed on a particular topic. They are used by hobbyists and professionals alike for many things. Even I have a couple of computer "... for Dummies" books. They are called that because they begin the book assuming that you have no knowledge about that topic. He suggested a pamphlet that does the same thing, if I'm understanding you correctly.

It sounds like you are being too sensitive about it. Something else may have made you upset, but it shouldn't have been that comment.

[Gaspar]

I think Paul has a great idea.  The zoning process and the reasons behind it can be very confusing to the general public.

I think a well written explanation of current zoning code will help to make sure the public is informed and never taken advantage of.  An understanding use and parking requirements would be very easy to represent graphically or photographically, and that representation would certainly aid the public in their selection of residential property, investment property, or the location of a new business.

In many cases people will select a piece of land for a business, or a home and after spending thousands of dollars they discover that the current zoning code will not permit their dream, or at least will require an expensive amendment.

Wouldn't it be easier for everyone if the current code were simple to interpret?  If the reasons behind the code are just, than understanding should be simple.

Realtors are motivated by the sale of property, and they are experts in representing clients through the transaction process, but they are not zoning specialists, and statements made by realtors to clients are in many cases mistaken or uninformed.  I think such a booklet would be a huge service to area Realtors, and should qualify as continuing education for them.

Why not make it an online resource? Anyone can access the current zoning map, so why not link each use on the map with a simple well written explanation using photographs as examples.  Make it easier to navigate too, and encourage area realtors to utilize it when working with clients.  Perhaps TulsaNow could host, and charge for advertising?  Promotes the online community, serves the public, funds the organization, and encourages open dialogue about zoning and the use of simple systems.

You know someone is going to jump on this.

[Limabean]

Yes, I  am fully aware of  the "      for Dummies" series.

It was this awareness that led me to believe that Mr. Kane's comment was totally insensitive and counter-productive to the whole reason that the Task Force was initially called.

If referring to the citizens of Tulsa as "Dummies" is his idea of how to increase communication between the howmeowners and the development sectors he is the one who is really stupid.

Mr. Kane obviously doesn't have the slightest idea of how to conduct himself in a public meeting. If he wants to be a bully behind closed-doors that is his right. If he wants to be a bully at a public meeting where well-intentioned people take time out of their busy schedules to participate in a dialogue that will hopefully have some productful outcome and the best idea he can come up with is, "Hey! Maybe we should call it "Zoning for Dummies!" then I would argue that Mr. Kane has no place at the Task Force meetings and represents only the monied intersts of the development community.

Grow up, Mr. Kane.

[cannon_fodder]

Being largely a "dummy" on the issue myself, perhaps the solution would be simpler zoning or a dummies guide?  A SimCity color coded map of what can go where.  I know there is a comprehensive zoning map online, but it's just not pretty enough for most of us dummies to figure it out.

Light green = single family
medium green = duplexes and 8 plexes
Dark green = massive apartment complexes

Same with blue for commercial:
light - small retail/offices
medium - big box stores, strip malls/2 story offices
dark - malls/4+ story offices sky scraper potential

Industrial brown:
light - small warehouse, studio, etc.
medium - larger warehouse, machine shop, etc.
dark - full fledged factory

We've all played the game!  I'm know there are more details than that, there is mixed use etc. too - but to give a general idea it could be helpful.  Interesting if nothing else. 

[waterboy]

Yes, I  am fully aware of  the "      for Dummies" series.

It was this awareness that led me to believe that Mr. Kane's comment was totally insensitive and counter-productive to the whole reason that the Task Force was initially called.

If referring to the citizens of Tulsa as "Dummies" is his idea of how to increase communication between the howmeowners and the development sectors he is the one who is really stupid.

Mr. Kane obviously doesn't have the slightest idea of how to conduct himself in a public meeting. If he wants to be a bully behind closed-doors that is his right. If he wants to be a bully at a public meeting where well-intentioned people take time out of their busy schedules to participate in a dialogue that will hopefully have some productful outcome and the best idea he can come up with is, "Hey! Maybe we should call it "Zoning for Dummies!" then I would argue that Mr. Kane has no place at the Task Force meetings and represents only the monied intersts of the development community.

Grow up, Mr. Kane.

Don't you just hate it when no one agrees with you and you have painted yourself into a corner with a vitriolic rant and you can't just say, "oh, nevermind"? Been there. Think next time. The guy volunteered his time too probably and you rewarded him with going after the simplist of offhand remarks that actually made lots of sense. At least something good may come from your hatred of the players.

[landruler]

First time poster here, long time observer and supporter.

I was in that meeting and I have visited with Paul Kane. I assure you his comments were made with only good intentions. He was simply stating that however accurate and informative they may be, City staff can go to considerable effort to produce dry and uninteresting documents that really don't present the needed information in a way that is engaging and understandable. As others have said, he was simply using the "For Dummies" series of books as an example to illustrate his point that documents produced to help could be made so much better.

I agree that the Citizen's Guide he referenced could use some interesting illustrations and common language explanations to make it even better. But there were no professional writers or illustrators or usability experts employed in the effort. It was just an in-house job and you get what you pay for.

[RecycleMichael]

I don't know Paul Kane that well, but we have been in meetings together and he was very helpful to me at a green building conference last week.

I can't see him being all bully in a meeting nor being disrespectful to others. I think his comment was probably in reaction to others saying there should be more education on these issues and simply refering to a well-known model of education books.

I wasn't at your meeting, so I don't know what happened. But I do think that a task force dealing with the residential built environment and zoning should include the president of the home-builders association.

Lima Bean...do you think the task force should be only informed neighbrhood folk?

[custosnox]

Even though I do find it interesting that you seemed to take the same attitude towards the suggestion of a dummies book that my 10 year old daughter did.  Differance is, when I showed my daughter some of my dummies books that I have and read, she realized that it wasn't an insult.

[PonderInc]

I think a "zoning for dummies" reference guide would be fantastic! 

(This must not be my particular insecurity, b/c it never would have occured to me to be insulted by this statement.)

When someone tells you to "google" it, can you search with Yahoo?  When someone asks for a Kleenex, can you hand them a Puffs?  When I make a Xerox copy on a Canon copier, is that ok? 

"For Dummies" just means "clearly explained, in plain English, with good illustrations."  Perfect!

[Gaspar]

Grow up, Mr. Kane.

Phaseolus Lunatus,
Paul Kane is a kind gentleman. His dedication in his post and the service he has given to his community is beyond reproach.  I would say that he is almost helpful to a fault.

I question your reasoning for any attack on his character.  You would be hard pressed to find any support for your position among people who have met, associated, or worked with Mr. Kane. 

Continue if you must, but know that you only serve to diminish yourself.

[Limabean]

Are you guys on the payroll for the Homebuilder's Association?

[waterboy]

Ixnay for the Waterboy. Though if the pay is good I'll consider it.

[Red Arrow]

When someone tells you to "google" it, can you search with Yahoo?  When someone asks for a Kleenex, can you hand them a Puffs?  When I make a Xerox copy on a Canon copier, is that ok? 

"For Dummies" just means "clearly explained, in plain English, with good illustrations."  Perfect!

Google, Kleenex, Xerox, Coke, Pepsi are all copyrighted.  There have been court battles over them with varied results. Different issue.

"Dummy" to me implies an inability to learn, not just a lack of education.  I don't make a big deal of it. I just refuse to buy any of the ".... for Dummies" books.  We all have our own "politically correct" hot spots.   I will admit it is a catchy title.  I also agree that a publication of that type would be useful.